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Very interesting and smart twist on a binary plan (the 1/3 rule)… It forces you to try to keep your boat well balanced while everyone else is trying to capzise it, basically. An the big irony is that everybody else thinks they’re also trying to get it stable. And guess what: the higher you get in the network, the harder will be to get a grip on the “wheel”.

I’ve seen this problem in Agel (you can’t get your legs controled, because everyone on both your upline and downline are adding people to the network also)… but here you have that crazy rule. It will save the company millions of dollars in compensation bonuses, that’s for sure.

The rest of it is looks pretty much like the same old “No sales required recruiting game”…

Best Regards,

Pedro

very interesting, at what # in the network do you see as early, in amway i was told the first 60,000 made millions

60,000 sounds much too high to me.

I don’t know… The ability to make a lot of money with this would depend on its ability to stay afloat for at least 10 years or more. I don’t see that happening. It’s too pyramid-y to last much more than a couple of years, in my opinion. So I see those early thousand or two making *some* money, but certainly not millions.

Hey everyone, I had the chance to attend a very informal meeting about this “opportunity”. I decided to get all of my questions out into the open and probably came across as a “negative prick” since I am a very skeptical person, I mean come one people, there is no such thing as a “get rich quick” plan that exists on this planet. now I’ll be honest with you guys, I’m thinking hard about joining this thing, but only because it’s still a growing baby and true that on-line is the wave of the future, but how far into the future is plan aiming to go. Many factors have to be taken into consideration :
1) the economic downfall the country is facing isn’t a good sign.
2) how hard is it really to “convince” people to give up $438 these days?
3)how hard is it to “sell” people the idea of shifting their shopping habis from store to online?

I myself am an avid online shopper, although I play devil’s advocate and this is my personal mathematical equation: ” Is the time I’m going to save by driving to store + gas + vehicle depreciation EQUAL TO OR LESS THAN the shipping & handling charges from making online purchases + wait time (7 business days on average)?

** I’m in the market to buy a camera, so far best buy has the lowest price, the total of the cash back I’d receive were to have my own portal through STE on this one buy is $31.00.**

If I were to purchase the lower end of the “STE service for sale ($99) I would have made 1/3 of my investment back. So it works out…

BUT!!!!!!!

The real way to “make big bucks” is buy trying to convince people to purchase a $438 piece of the “pie”. Which isn’t so easy.

I’m leaning more towards not joining right now, simply because I dislike sales and being that annoying person trying to convince you to buy something you don’t really need.

Just some food for though.

I was looking into this opportunity as well. I was not a fan of trying to push my friends to MLM, additionally, there are several outlets to getting cash back from shopping online without having to pay the $448. So if your goal is to get cash back from online shopping then there are other avenues. Unless you are going to try to sell people to join, this probably isn’t for you.

If all you want to do is make cash back from your personal online purchases, then all you have to pay is the $99 fee. If I were to buy the camera I want, in one day I’d get back about $35 out of the $99. So not too shabby….

I am NOT going to join, made my mind up.

I too am not a fan of pushing my friends into spending money on a MLM company,but this company went well above the rest by getting top name stores to back them, i have been a member for 8 days now and i have received a check for $4500.00,not to bad for $448 so if some of my friends can make a couple of thousand $ in a short period of time well good for them too.

So tell us in detail what you had to do to be eligible for such a large check in 8 days.

As you already know you have to refer people to the site, and during the first 30 days they give you some really good bonus, if you sign up 5 people they give you your $448 back plus $550, if you refer 10 people in the first 30 days you get $4100 like i did. half of the people i got in already got there money back and $550 extra. starting 8/1/08 they are going to make you spend the $100 on there site shop to earth, but if you are getting a couple of thousand a month in bonuses why not,, in 8 days i have 27 people under me from just 10 referals, my check for the next couple months should just keep going up and if not i already made thousands in about a week and the friends i got in got there money back so i dont feel bad .

Yeah, don’t feel bad about the people below you who will lose money from this scheme! And I won’t believe you made that much unless I see your check.

I’m in the same boat with Tracy. To “convince” 10 people in less than a week to give up $450 you either lied your butt off to them, have friends who don’t care to lose that kind of money or you guys didn’t really analyze the borader picture of this.

like i said before half of the people i got in have received there money back plus $550, and tracy i also told everyone i got in to get 5 people involved and when i say get involved i dont mean just sit around and think people are going to come to you, you are not going to get money back if you dont work alittle bit for it and i mean a little bit,i also told them if in a month they cant get 5 people i would give them the money back. hector i do understand the picture and $450 is alot of money these days but i beleive if you dont take a chance you will not get anywhere but working the rest of your life for someone who took a chance.
i am not trying to convince anyone as far as the check i got this month there is no reason for me to lie i dont know you or anybody on this site and i am not trying to sign you up. if you dont want to get involved dont,i made $4100 taking a chance that does not mean you have too.

One of the most common ways MLMs promote their schemes is through false earnings claims. So like I said I will not believe this until I see it. There is reason for you to lie: You want to recruit more people to the scheme.

where do you live tracy? you should attend one of the meetings they have them almost every week , at least in nj where i live.
i am not trying to promote anything i am just trying to get by

Roy

LOL - My time is too valuable to be wasted on an MLM scam meeting.

but tracey you can waste your time online talking about what you think is a scam. I am living proof that it is not and you should always keep your ears open and mind or you will never make any money.

Kim - It is definitely not a waste of time if I can warn people about predators like you.

Where exactly is the scam in this?

I can see one of having to give up $450 up front.

But then, how does it get worse?

1. It is a recruiting scam. The goal is to recruit as many as possible to get that sign-up fee.
2. The process by which you “make money” is scammish, as noted above. One major problem is whether or not you can get this bonus payout or even have any control over getting it.

How many hours do you guys put in for $4100.00? That is the bonus opportunity in the quick start (initial 30 day period).
This takes a bit of effort to discuss it with people, and have them attend the online-or-live meeting(s).
As to the balance question, I do not see the issue here. I am now working on my weaker leg, but each time I reach 1600 points on that side, I score and earn $550.00.
The right 1600 IS wiped out as is the other 2/3 points from the left leg, but with my focus on the right, I have scored numerous times. That’s the model. It’s very clear.
The only people under me that may get hurt are the ones who joined up and do nothing. This is why I have been VERY selective in who I choose to bring to the meetings. This is not for the lazy ones.
Why wast your time or someone else’s time if they are only looking for a “Get Rich Quick Scheme”. Walk away and find better people.
Also, when discussing this one needs to be brutally honest about all aspects of the business model. Mostly that it WILL TAKE SOME EFFORT!
That way we all win. So again, I am a bit confused as to the concern here other then the whole thing collapsing someady, but I have made more then enough already to compensate me for the small amount of time I put into it. I’ll just keep accepting the auto deposits for now. If it goes away, so be it.

Ron

control over getting the bonus, its already in my account $4100 for $448, so you keep on wasting your time here while i will be out there making more MONEY

Tracey,If you get your $450.00 back in a short period of time like several of my friends have you have lost nothing.If you get $450.00 + and want to get out you have lost nothing.You must have been scammed at one time.That must be why you are so mean and bitter to and about people you don’t know. You don’t have to do it if you are not interested. I have not joined but have seen the money my friends have made. Just by shopping at the stores I already shop at I will make my money back if I decide to join.Life is too short to be so BITTER!

Ron - Who cares if a whole bunch of people at the bottom lose their money when the pyramid scheme crumbles. As long as you made your money, right?

Thank you for the beautiful illustration of exactly why these MLMs are such scams and the participants so shady.

LOL @ RBG. Yes, it’s so mean and bitter to warn consumers about scams like this. I don’t know how I can live with myself!

One other point, curious and mybe a bit sad. The people I know who really need the extra money, and accordingly have the least available to risk, tend to opt out. Mostly, The ones who have joined under me considered $450.00 nothing and are now making money.
As I said, a bit sad.
FYI, I drew up a contract to help my bigger targets hop on. Basically if they do not achieve at least $1000.00 in the first year, I will refund the $448.00 plus 10% (Simple Interest) or $495. I ONLY offer this to the high potential people.
Believe it or not, one actually declined this. Go figure.

Hi Tracy, I went to a Shoptoearn meeting last night. A friend took me. Like some of the others I’m skektical myself. I never sign up right away.
The recruiter had a house filled w/65 to 70 people in FL. She showed her check amt of $16,583 in 3 mths. Said she’s #9 in the country.
Point is guys, I checked The Better Bus Bureau and the co is nowhere to be found. I called their home base in NV they’re not listed in BBB.
Don’t you have to obtain a bus license to do this?
And wouldn’t the BBB have you listed as an internet networking co?

Loch - The BBB isn’t the best way to check up on a company. First, this one is so new, that it’s unlikely to have any complaints registered to them. Second, they don’t have to register with the BBB, and even if they do, it’s really just a membership organization… you pay your dues and pretend to deal with complaints and all will go well.

Sure, the people at the top of a pyramid scheme make money. It’s good for them, right? Others get in, hoping they can make that same type of money. Almost none of them do, and upwards of 99% never make back the money they’ve “invested” in the scheme.

http://www.pyramidschemealert.org

Tracy, No, I am not overly concerned about that. I joined to make $$, not be a charity to others. Our meetings are very professional and painfully clear of the pitfalls.
I will continue to support my charities as I laways have. Cash donations.
And furthermore, anyone can, and should, perform due diligence before joining.
Free will is a great thing!
I think we are all glad you are not on board. Geez.

Excellent. You don’t care that others will be scammed out of their money when the pyramid collapses. In my world we call that fraud. In your world, that’s professional. Nice.

I agree with Tracy to some extent, however, it seems to meet that this product is very different from all of the previous MLM’s such as Amway, Agel or Mona Vie. Everyone buys products on the internet. Why not profit at least just a little. A friend of mine started a few months ago and he tried to get me into it then, but I was a skeptic. When I saw his first check I was sold. Rather than have my $450 sit in a savings account at 1% interest, why not try this. Worst case scenario is I’ll make my money back by making a few big purchases through the website.

I was thinking of joining for spongebob’s last reason, I buy enough online to make the money back in the first year before I get hit with the $112 renewal fee.

BUT again, for that, I’ll just pay the $99 and not have to worry or get greedy enough to want to try to sell it to my friends.

If what’s his face sends me a notarized agreement saying he’ll refund me my $450, I’ll gladly sign up.

I did a little math and I think If the person who under I sign up, brings in more people and they’ve maxed out their 2 (outer legs), do the new saps automatically fall under my legs if they’re empty.?

I would ask this of the naysayers, assuming this will collapse, which at this time is just an assumption.
From what I read, I assume the the total maximum exposure is $450.00.
The other style MLMs required that you purchase an inventory of stuff to sell, sell it and get others to sell it. I never wanted to sell so I chose (emphasis on CHOSE) not to participate in them.
So lets also assume (only fair) for a moment it survives and the folks who work at it do well.
Will you feel guilty for turning folks away? I am guessing not.
Bottom line is no one is holding a gun to anyone. If you do not like the business model, do not join as I chose not to. I do not get this debate.

99% of participants in MLMs lose money. That’s just because of the structure of them. So there will be no such thing as everyone doing well. There is an ever-increasing number of people who will lose money on this - they’re known as the bottom of the pyramid.

Sorry Hector, that offer was only for a few highly motivated friends and acquaintances of mine who were on the fence.

OOOH - “highly motivated”

You learn those MLM buzz phrases very quickly. Good cult member. Good cult member.

Tracy and Hector. Please do NOT join ShopToEarn, stay away from it as far as you can…….PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why do ask this? because I joined ShopToearn Five weeks ago and I have made over $9,800 already and in the process I have made many of my friends happy by introducing them to a great/legitimate/real/wonderful business opportunity. My best friend has made $4,700 in 4 weeks, my wife’s friend and her husband have made over $5,000 and today 07/12/2008 is exactly 30 days since they started and the list goes on, 3 Days ago I introduced another one of my friends who was skeptical at first and he has made $1,145 in his first 3 days.

So why do I ask you both to NOT join and stat away? because your negative energy is so strong and pathetic at the same time that nothing good could come from it.

People like Ron and my self get it, and that is the kind of people that I want in my business, the kind of people that will infect others with positive energy and have the vision that I have.

Thanks and please stay away!!!!
Shu, Shu!!!

WoW! I better go get a penicillin shot, I hope I did not catch a Negative Alien Bug by posting here.
I just realized that Tracy Coenen has an advertisement on this web site on her book Titled “Essentials of Corporate Fraud” she is accountant and a FRAUD examiner. Tracy my apologies, I was angry at you for being a person with negative energy, you poor thing you can not help it when the whole point of your profession is to look for the negative things in any system or organization. Do you own and moderate this web site? I suppose the answer is Yes. If so I’m sure that you will have the integrity to not delete my posts, specially the one where I call it as I read it and refer to you as a person of extreme NEGATIVE energy.

You poor thing !

PS. I was amused by this forum since a new ShopToEarn broker in my downline sent me the link. Now I see is the classic over analyze, think about it, I’m not really convinced yet, what’s the catch? kind of mentality that never ever gets anything accomplished.

Like Jason M. wrote “I do NOT get this debate”
Why not do like most people who look at something and decide not to join, just simply move on and get a life.

Have a good life everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
.

Hey Tracy - Where do you get your figures. 99% lose money?? What is that? This seems to be something totally different. You earn $$ by purchasing things on-line. I’ve been, and I’m sure most people in America buy products on-line, some more than others. Once this MLM is is extended to the bottom, even the bottom people will still be making money if they use their site to on-line shopping. I can tell you that I know buy all of my essentials, toothpaste, etc on-line. It’s been saving me in gas by limiting my several trips per week to the grocery store right off the bat. I also can by my contact lenses and prescriptions all on-line and over the course of each year even without anyone under my line, it should recoup itself from the original fee that I would pay. I think if Tracy had a good friend or family member try this and they earned a good chunk of change perhaps she wouldn’t be such a nay sayer with this particular MLM.

Wh I started writing I wasn’t planning on the “debate” which somtimes turns into childsplay, to be long, but this is good. PLEASE keep giving opinions, as I am only 99% NOT joining. There is still 1% of me that wants in, simply because it’s so new and I could make some money IF this is for real…

Hey Hector - it is for real, but it’s just like anything else. If it’s too good to be true then it usually is. But if you put a little time and effort and do some research, there is no doubt in my mind that you could at least double or triple your money. At this point right now, even if you lost all of it, we are talking about $448. My wife spends that in 2 months at Target on Crap :o)

Anyone going to the grocery store “several” times a week has problems. I will save you money and won’t charge you $448 for the advice. GO TO THE GROCERY STORE ONCE A WEEK.

I see Raul comes from the “no critical thinking skills allowed” mindset. If someone dares to expose a scam for what it is, you’re NEGATIVE. How dare I discuss the real truth about this pyramid scheme. It might help some consumers avoid this scam and keep their $448!

Tracy, what would you say if a Church group or a school PTA bought a site and used the site as a fundraiser. It’s being done. Schools and Businesses spend thousands and thousands of dollars at office depot….It’s money back in their pocket.

By the way, you sound very bitter. Were you burned before by something like this?

bitter = another buzz word used by MLM cult members against those who criticize the scams

Also buzz words for people like me: lazy, loser (usually spelled looser by MLM cult members), wanted a get-rich-quick scheme, not willing to work hard, negative, hateful, biased, zealot, irrational, closed-minded…

The list goes on and on. I simply want to stop consumers from losing billions of dollars to these scams EACH YEAR. If conducting a consumer awareness campaign means that I’ll be called names, so be it.

And I would tell you that the church or school would save FAR MORE money if they contacted the Business Services Division at Office Depot and got an account with them. Oops. Ya didn’t know about that program, did you? And it’s free!

Actually I do know about that program. The schools and church can still shop at Office Depot’s website through the Shop to Earn site and still get money back on top of the discount that they already receive.

Trust me, when you have growing kids, there are always several stops at the grocery store per week.

No, they cannot use ShopToEarn with the Business Services Division. And no, growing children don’t require more than one trip to the grocery store a week. It’s called discipline and organization. But that’s not really the point here. The bottom line is that a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money with this MLM. It sounds nice, but it’s not. $450 x thousands of people is a lot of money lost.

Just wanted to share my thoughts on what I have read so far in this blog…First off, let me start by saying that I joined STE June 19, 2008. A friend called me and briefly explained the concept to me. In a nutshell, it combines [1] an initial investment of $448 (your downside risk) [2] online shopping (a relatively untapped market) and [3] cash back for your purchases, future referrals & their purchases.

In an environment of stock market / real estate debacles, bank failures, job losses and rising gas prices, you must look to exploit opportunities when they avail themselves. This may in fact be one of those opportunities. Most people shy away from opportunities like this because of an overall lack of information, only to ultimately join at the tail end, muck like the majority of investors in the stock and real estate markets (right before they both plunged). My point…the masses are always wrong, mostly in their timing!

If you are a self-starter and have $448 to risk, this may be something to consider. My only suggestion is that you join under strong people (like me) for two reasons: [1] They will continue to refer brokers who will appear in your downline for your benefit and [2] if they are like me, they will help you recruit your own referrals. Those who join who ultimately become disenchanted and opt out, do so because they have “jumped in” under those who are, as one blogger pointed out “in it to make their money back”, so once you join, they chalk that up and after a few more joinees, are gone for purposes of providing any future help. If you are considering joining and want someone that will offer phone and online help to build your network, go to my site *****HA HA Not on your life will I let you promote your scam here ***** and get in touch.

My only goal is to help everyone in my downline keep their right/left relatively equal and we all understand the value in maintaining that, even it means helping others recruit for the benefit of future payout . My goal is to exploit this opportunity for as long as it stays viable. If it’s one day, then so be it; if it never ends, even better.

Tracey,
I’m a realtor struggling in this economy’s downfall with banks/appraisers/etc. Yes, some people will lose their $448. Other entrepreneur business owners lose far more. Yes, I was skeptical, but one thing I can tell you is I’m excited because I’m dreaming BIG again. In three days, I made $1145.00. That’s far more than I’ve made in a month in my business were I made $15M last year in total sales. I’m a top producing realtor caught in this economy’s gloomy situation. I’ve regained your “big deal issue” of it and made $697 ($1145 - $448). The lazy person will lose their $448, but they will have a dream for a few days. Nobody really knows who will be a stud and who will produce. However, being involved in something I have to do anyway is a no-brainer. This ain’t MonaVie (one product) or other MLM’s I never joined. You are entitled to your opinion, but compare apples with apples as this MLM is far superior than any I’ve EVER SEEN! God Bless You!

Had to put in my two cents. I joined about 4 weeks ago. I’ve read alot of information on this program since i joined. I still have not heard one negative comment from anyone who joined. Just from people who are jealous of the people who are taking the chance with $450. I also recently invested money in the stock market. Now in both instances ive put moneyup to try to make money. in shop to earn I’ve started to make money. in the stock market i’ve taken a bath plus still paid someone to lose me that money.
2nd isn’t every business a MlM company. The people on top make money, go golfing, have boats & go on vacations While the people on the bottom work long hours make little money and support everyone on top. Face it we all want a peice of the good life but the people who get it are willing to take chances and work hard to get there. In my opinion $450 is a small price to pay for that chance. Ive lost alot more than that in my investments in the past month alone and my investment broker still wants to get paid for that advice.
Now there will be people who will lose their $450 because they got into the program with the idea of making money on everyone elses hard work not their own. If you work at this program like the business it is you will and i mean “WILL” make money. If just by doing your best at shopping on your site and not referring anyone you can still get your money back plus more. I’ve in just one month saved over $75.00 by comparison shopping on the web site and at local stores (I found the best price, got cash back, Shopped on my time).
and this dosen’t even get into the fun me and my kids are having trying to save money on all the stuff we already Buy.
Yes there are some bad MLM companies out their but in my opnion and every other person involved this is not one of them. Think as you may but you also have to have an open mind to the great opportunity that is being presented here.

You go girl!

Mike, have you done the math? Maybe you should read my most recent article on this company. I don’t think most people will recoup their investment with shopping. They must recruit new marks. That, in an of itself is a scheme, because it depends on endless recruiting. At some point, those at the bottom aren’t in a position to recover their money. But no big deal, so long as you’ve gotten your money back, right?

http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/2008/07/12/more-on-why-shoptoearn-sucks-mypowermall-teamnational/

Tracy,
Math $75.00 in one month
per year $75 X 12 = ? I think its above $450. but then again I don’t know math. Yes I work at it to save but it can be done by anyone. and I can still make money also. I guess every business in the world is a scam because every one is trying to make money from other people. I’m not forcing people to do this and i’m helping my referrals save by showing them how to save money shopping on the site, showing them where i found good deals, free shipping and good money back and the comparison to regular stores. yes we want to get others in our program but every store in the world wants to get as many customers as possible and get them to spend money at their store. Even the last people into this program can save more money in one year by far then they spend to get in. and in the following years its a lot easier to save big. if people don’t recoup their investment then it’s their own fault for not taking the time to learn how to shop smart on their own web site. I also get other people that don’t want to sign up (Which is just fine with me & once they decline I don’t bother them again with it) to shop from my web site track their order #’s and i split the difference with them. More earnings for me and savings for them & they didn’t pay the $450. Rember it’s my business and you have to make it work for you the people under you and customers. otherwise there is no business. in which case your business fails and you become the negative person that can’t belive in any opportunity.

I guess this isn’t for me since I’m not a stuggling real-estate agent huh? And am I too negative for having a REAL job and successful carreer? For making over 100K a year before I hit the age of 28?

I don’t consider myself NEGATIVE, I’m conservative and realistic. But I guess that hasn’t worked for me…

The thing is, I don’t have time to work this project all day. Maybe that’s why I don’t se a point to it, but maybe when MY profession’s market tumbles, then I’ll start to sweat it right?

And Raul, The Secret…… not true buddy, you will only get positive results if you WORK towards them, not by thinking them.

About the church issue, I think it leans towards the un-ethical side of the triangle a little, but that’s just my opinion.

Has anyone NOT thought about the recession we’re facing NOW and looking TOWARD?!

Shopping trends in general are expected to drop even more these upcoming holidays… plus, throw in Shipping + Handling charges. Also, have all of you people who have “switched over to online shopping only”, not considered the fact the this is consumer based economy, MORE demand = MORE supply. Why do I mention this, next time you receive one of you beloved online purchase receipts, look for some fine print “fuel surchage”. If they don’t make it obvious, you’ll see how what you buy will slowly have the price increased as we bump UP UPS/FEDEX/DHL’s nationwide usage.

But I’m crazy right?!

Hey Hector,

There are lots of stores like Best Buy, Target and Walmart where you can order on-line and pick up the merchandise at the store. I know that you still have to make the trip to the store, but your item is already waiting for, it’s paid for, and you can avoid the long lines.

Also, many of the websites that I’ve seen on the STE have free shipping. Lots of times there are special pricing on-line that you don’t get in the store. There are lots of options.

Roy, Ron & Mike - I went on the tour conference call, saw the video and just came back from a live introduction to the business. It makes sense to me on so many levels! However, if you guys can help me understand the concern of the blogger at the very top of this web page, it would be helpful. What’s the issue about being “on the outer leg of the person above you” and being “locked into a massively lopsided point score”. The only questions I have are related to this balance or weighting issue. Please answer with as much detail as possible.

Spongebob, you know that was a question I had in the back of my mind. There’s a positive point to that then, if in fact you can use that function of in store pick up. That’s GREAT!
Does it limit you to non-clearance items? If not then that’s amazing also.

Ada,
As to the down line being lopsided. what this is saying is that the people above you are droping people below you on your down lines. This is good for you because you get help from the people above to help build your business. the bad part is that when they do put people below you they always fall to one side. The idea is if people are starting to drop below you to let the people above build your one downside and you build the other. If your worried about being lopsided consider if no one was placed on your down lines from above. then you have to build both sides by your self. The website gives you the option to place any of your referrals on which ever side you want.
As for spongebob & Hector don’t forget that there is also more selection as to products and stores that you can choose from to find better prices or a different product that a store dosn’t carry in the store but does online. Let me explain:
I work with one of the largest baby crib companies in the world. They sell to target about 15 to 20 different models of wich only 5 or 6 are sold in the stores.
the other 10 or so models are only available thru target.com and to save money on the prices are shipped direct from the manufacture whse and never touched by target hands. this happens with many different products and stores which is one reason these stores give good discounts if you buy online and not at the store. Target in this instance just takes the order and money send the mfg a ticket to ship the product to the person who bought it . the mfg then ships the product and bills target which also gives target now 30 days to pay for the product in which they already got paid. (this is about the time value of money for target now also.)
You can also do a better job of comparison shopping on lie also. if you go to target, best buy, ETC. you usually go to that store or maybe one other to comparison shop (don’t forget the more comparison shopping the more traveling in the car). on line you have alot of stores to check prices, deals, money back, not to mention out of stock ,(isn’t it a shame you travel 15 min to a store to get a game or something else and it’s sold out - now you got nothing except to put more money into that gas tank). by being able to comparison shop you may show less cash back in your STE check but may have saved alot that dosn’t show. You must also consider this when evualating STE and the ability to get your money back on your investment.
Hector you can use instore pickup and different stores treat clearance items or deal items differently. some actually offer better deals and clearance items online.

one more thing. STE is not for everyone and never will be. but don’t discount online shopping because of STE. There are great deals online whether you are involved with STE or not. STE makes the deals better and gives you some opportunity to make some extra cash also. Just check out drugstore.com for instance they give anybody 5% cash back on one order towards the next order.
restraunt.com sells gift cards with $25 value for local restraunts for $10 and you can print them with your computer and go right to the restraunt and use them. Alot of sites offer free shipping and some if the are sites from out of state like drugstore.com again you don’t pay sales tax (Except FL.). Here in pa thats 6% right off the bat.
Like i said before you can make your investment back if you want even if you don’t sign up any body. (it does take learning how to shop smart) This also means that sometimes online is also not your best option.
I’ll save a ton just by avoiding taking my kids shopping with me a couple times a year and getting 10 things i didn’t need just because they had them at the checkout register at the store.

I just don’t see how companies like Target, Macy’s, Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. would agree to a relationship with Shop to Earn if they had any idea that it was a scam. If they thought it was a scam, don’t you think that those huge companies would have nothing to do with them!

Getting an affiliate link on a site has nothing to do with whether or not the company is a scam. These stores don’t vet the sites and certainly wouldn’t be interested in whether or not Stop To Earn is a recruiting scam. Nice try to build credibility with that comment, but it doesn’t work.

Where I’m a little worried is that since you do get a point for each $1 you spend right or save? so then if I’m trying to survive off of this, I would to spend more right to get more points and “score”?

So then that leaves the “saving” part kind of in the dark because if I’m smartly shopping and hitting all of the bargains, I’m not getting as many points back?

Make sense?

Hello again,
as to tracy’s comment not just anybody can become an affiliate. they do check into the companies and their web sites. This though like tracy says does not prove that it is not a scam. People are getting paid from STE that is for sure could they go bust down the road “Yes” but so could any company. My company sold product to Kay Bee toys for years then one day they went chapter 11 and stuck us for $80,000. stayed in business and went else where to get the product because we wanted to add $.02 cents per unit to recoup the $80000 loss we took. (Real ethical on their part)
As to Hector you won’t get enough points off your own shopping to make score bonuses. that’s why you want people below you. you in turn may only get 100 points yourself but if in you down lines you have 100 people below you each getting another 50 points each then you have 5000 points and a score bonus.

One other note,
There are other ways to make money with this also. I get people that don’t want to have their own web site that I know to shop from mine and the email me their order #, store purchased, date and amount. this is how i track who i owe what. I keep 25% of the cash back and send them 75%. Gives them incentive to shop from me. I also still get their points. this does take some effort but it pays.

Hector,

You don’t make the big bucks just purchasing products on your own, unless you are a big business that makes large purchases on-line. You will eventually earn enough to where you get your entry fee back plus some. The way to make the big bucks is to refer others to get their own site under you. Each time those people get $$ back from their purchases you get points which equals cash. The trick, or scam as Tracy puts it, is to get as many people as you can underneath you. The more people obviously the more revenue is generated. To get it started you really need to refer 2 people and it will pay dividends quickly.

Mike, thank you for your response on the lopsided issue. So, if I understand correctly, it means that one side gets built almost automatically and the other side you have to work at. If the weaker side does not get attention, what happens to the “Score”? Also, on Aug. 1 everyone will be required to buy $100 from Shop to Earth on a monthly basis. I don’t spend $100/month on these type of products under any circumstances and don’t want to do this on a monthly basis only to have products sit in my garage. What do you think about this and do you have a creative solution to this issue?

Ada,
The aug 1st requirement is not set in stone yet they are voting on it this weekend. also you only have to spend it to receive score bonuses. if not generating enough points yet don’t buy the products. They are also going to be adding alot of new green companies and products before this happens. once you are getting the bonuses and buying the products use what you want and donate the rest and get the tax write off. rember that this is done to generate points for you from your down lines. this in turn will give you more bonus money.
As for the score you need 1/3 of the points to come from your weaker side. the points will keep accumulating till the weaker side generates 1/3 points then you will score. what this is saying is build your weaker side and you will be paid based on the weak side. don’t worry that your strong side is getting so many points. rember these are bonus points from the heavens above.

The newest recruits are going to lose money unless they can recruit fresh meat, because of the way the commissions are set up. And any exponential growth quickly outruns the population base.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_half_of_the_chessboard

I have a friend that is going to spend the $100 at Shop to Earth and donate the items to Women in Distress. Not only it is a nice gesture, but it is a tax deductible donation.

Maybe if Mike would have tried to present this to me I would have considered it alot more. I like he presents his answers, not like the clowns I had to deal with.

Tracey as somebody in the advertising business what would you call me?
We had a meeting just today in the office of how to get more people to fill the seats for a sports team we represent, since you know the Economic Recession and all. You see what we were trying to do in “Advertising” was figure out a way to get people to spend money on something they can watch on TV or read about online. So basically we are selling a disposable item. I must be a master Scammer or work in the Scammerizing business. I am 24 y/o college educated and working full time, something i noticed in college was this thing called PROFIT, when you receive PROFIT you are making money above the money you invested. See you have to find a way to get someone to give the money in their pocket to your pocket and you need to figure out a super special way of getting more $ then you put in. Yes there will be people who do not benefit from STE in the same way that Raul and others have, but unless the company just bottoms out before they can purchase some items online, to recieve the savings, then they will loose $448. Back to PROFIT, its the only way to survive, wow. Can i have a copy of your book posted in PDF format online for a free download Or you know what can i get it for the price of the paper its printed on, i will pay that. It is unfortunate that we are not communist Tracey, then we could all live in the same black house and all drive the same car and all wear the same clothing. Do you own Jewerly Tracey, did you get it for the price of the metal or did you pay more, like for the artists skills, how did he figure that out, is there a formula to making money and not ripping people off. I do have to commend you on your book sales tactic, your blog is in the top 10 when you google STE, its called Search Engine Optimization or a Pay Per Click campaign, you just keep putting every MLM concepts name on your site enough and then its the first to come up.

O and every other blog i am interested in the moderator’s usually says they are in charge of the blog and not just act like a poster.

Morgan - I’d call you illiterate. You didn’t actually get a college degree, did you? Because you can’t even string together one cohesive sentence. Sad.

It seems pretty clear to me that some of the posters to this discussion are shills. Might I suggest Tracy that you pull the IP addresses of everyone shilling for MLM’s on this discussion and post those addresses. I will then have our our research group see if they can track down who the posters are.

I run a number of inventor organizations. The backbone of these organizations are professional inventors. Needless to say, there is a big difference between professional inventors and aspiring inventors.

We have taken an interest in invention promotion fraud for well over a decade. Invention promotion fraudsters often resort to Cease and Desist letters. Personally I think that MLM businesses usually if not always defraud participants.

As far as I can tell the only difference between invention promoters and MLM is that the invention promoters are typically taking people for ten to fifty thousand dollars.

Both types of fraud play on people’s greed and hope for easy money.

Both like to threaten people in a vain attempt to silence them. It would be an understatement to say that not one invention promoter has been happy with the way their interactions with us turned out. Many of these stories are documented on http://www.InventorEd.org/caution/

The key to our handling of Cease and Desist letters is that we immediately publish those letters and then we investigate the perpetrator and publish much of what we learn. Once published this material stays on our site until hell freezes over.

Invention promoters who send Cease and Desist letters become prime targets of our efforts to bring local, state and Federal enforcement agencies into the mix.

I am suggesting that this situation be handled in a similar manner. The only way to deal with those who are ethically challenged is with a very firm hand. This means that every threat should be met with a response which puts the perps in an increasingly more difficult position.

Ronald J. Riley,

Speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - http://www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - http://www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - http://www.patentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST.

i love ronald and tracey so much, first ever heard of the job copy writer, second ronald whats the difference between you posting all your info and STE providing the same opportunity. Do you want people to gain exposure to your website by posting it on this blog forum. o and tracey it was a small one we weren’t accredited i did part of it online and then i just copied off people. From my understanding in the blog atmosphere grammatical errors are alright, since were not writing MLA format research papers.

Simple point Tracey since you are not after trying to use the internet to your advantage in making money, will you post your book for free download in PDF format, by the way that is a file format that all any computer user can use.

Or did you write your book to make a $.

they taught me all that during night classes when i was getting my GED two summers ago.

I love you so much. LOL is that proper english for you

I think this has deviated way too much from it’s original point. I started writing because it (the STE program) seemed WAY to good to be true.
Nothing in this world is free and I have a feeling there HAS to be a bigger picture to it.

Call me negative and all, but I just have a funny feeling about it.

The party posting as Morgan Rose is missing the point. It seems pretty clear that there are stooges representing the interests of a questionable MLM companies on this forum. What I am interested in is seeing if our researchers can tie some of those posters to a specific MLM company and then exposing who they are stooging for.

The information we need to trace them will be contained in the server logs.

By the way, Early today I posted a synopsis about the SLAPP threats to a forum where many top investigative journalists hang out. It is my belief that Gerald P Nehra and his MLM clients will greatly benefit from the disinfecting light of media exposure. It is my hope that we can help MLM proponents achieve their full potential

Ronald J. Riley,

Speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - http://www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - http://www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - http://www.patentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST.

TAXES!?!? Has this been mentioned? Say, you receive these thousands of dollars as a member. That is considered income. I hope you all are not forgetting this minor detail.

Once this MLM is is extended to the bottom, even the bottom people will still be making money if they use their site to on-line shopping.

You are essentially admitting that this is a recruiting scheme, and the only way to make the big bux is to recruit like mad, and hope your recruits recruit too. Ain’t nobody making more than peanuts just shopping (and for that they could use a cash back credit card).

When the exponential recruiting scheme makes it pretty easy for the first few, ,aybe even the first few thousand- looks like the person that recruited them takes 25% of the bottom recruit’s “investment”, the founders and uplines take the other 75% … and the guy on the bottom gets crumbs from the ad revenue.

If your legs get “unbalanced”, your payout doesn’t come until someone does more recruiting. And meanwhile, the founder has your money, interest free.

To spot an unprofitable scheme (not a Ponzi, just an ordinary MLM with the few at the top getting rich off peddling the dream to the bottom) look at where the recruit’s money goes. It FLOWS UPHILL to several layers of upline.

I’m slowly discovering the draw backs to this , here’s another thing unearthing itself from my previous order on my 1st purchase post :

turn out had I bought my item from the competition of an “affiliated” STE company, I would literraly saved 50%. Now it’s too late to cancel my order from STE and have to refuse delivery of my item, wait a month to get my money back, or take my items to a store to receive a store credit (which if I wanted to have gone to the store, I would have just bought the items there in the first place!!!)

Strike One….

One poster claimed that buying through ShopToEarn did not cost the buyer anything. I think that this is unlikely since businesses must pass all costs plu
s their profit margin on to the consumer.

I find that the cost difference on many items between the highest price provider and the lowest can be a 2-3 fold spread. Anytime you add extra middlemen it is the consumer who will foot the bill.

I would expect that ShopToEarn’s deals would rarely be the best deal available.

It is my hope that ShopToEarn and their attorney Gerald P Nehra have learner that trying to suppress legitimate public discussion is counterproductive and ill advised. If they haven’t learned this lesson we can and will arrange ever more dramatic attitude adjustments.

Ronald J. Riley,

Speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - http://www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - http://www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - http://www.patentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST.

Can someone send me copies of ShopToEarn’s contracts. I would like to have our attorneys evaluate their contract. We will publish commentary about the contract at some point.

Consumers often sign contracts without getting legal advice. In most cases the contracts are incredibly one sided and make it virtually impossible for the party to get justice.

NEVER sign a contract without having evaluated by a competent attorney.

Personally, I think that this advice is especially important when dealing with Multi Level Marketers (MLM) and MLM attorneys like Gerald P Nehra ! ! !

Ronald J. Riley,

Speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - http://www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - http://www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - http://www.patentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST.

I have been approached to set up STE as a fundraising opportunity for an athletic team. It would cost us $450 to get started. I would then encourage the families of the athletes to shop on-line, through our team STE website (for X-Mas gifts, etc.) and receive “cash back” in the form of checks as a result of these purchases. Seems to good to be true. I did see in an earlier post that an annual renewal fee of $112 a year was needed.

With major retailers like GAP, Target, Wal-Mart, Dicks Sporting Goods, Sports Authority, Macy’s, Sears, … on board it all seems to good to be true. Would $450 and an annual fee of $112 be all I need to spend. I could email the entire faculty and staff before the holidays encouraging them to use the team website to make purchases … we are talking about a 500-750 people that could potentially purchase from the website.

Doing a little math - with an average of 5% in “rewards” per retailer we would need those 500-750 people to spend $9000 just to get our upfront money back (come to think of it - if they spent $27,000 we would only have made $900 and you can’t get much for $900. It wouldn’t cover hotel OR food for a weekend for the team)… I guess I just answered my own question.

These people that say they are saving money in gas by purchasing their toothpaste on-line rather than driving to the grocery store (people that claim you can make all of your money back through your own purchases - again it would take $9000 in purchases to break even going solo in this venture) … are they purchasing their milk, bread, and fruit on-line? No, they are going to the grocery store. They should just pick up their toothpast then. What they are doing is running the risk of running up tremendous credit card debt in order to get a 26 cent “rebate” on a tube of Crest. They are using credit cards with 12-18% interest rates to “earn” 5% on a pair of running shorts from Dicks Sporting Goods or 3% back on some electronics from Wal-Mart.

Mike, finally a smart person to do some math prior to assuming that STE is the yellow brick road back to Kansas!!!

I did some math also, which is why I still am not going to sign up.

As it is mentioned in some of the posts above, you will NEVER make the investment money back simply by buying online through your website with STE. The real method, and what STE is inteded to do, is get to you recruit all of the 750 people to pay in the $450 and shop individually. THEN maybe all those pennies added up would get you your money back. And since you brought them in, you’d get points for the purchases they make. Pretty sneaky bastards huh?

If you read a couple of posts above your recent one, I’m describing my first shopping experiences through a friend of mine’s STE site. As you can see, being limited to only the affiliate sites, I over paid by 50% on the items I purchased, AND, I didn’t the 5% discount personally, I hope my friend does though.

If you REALLY want to shop online the smart way, this is what I do. I decide on what I want. Then I find the place I would buy it from online. I write down the price. Then I spend some time shopping around various websites until I find the price that best suits me, the difference between what I would have originally spent minus the best possible price, I put into savings. 9 out of 10 times it’s way more than 5%.

It’s just one of many ways of outsmarting the system. It does require some time to shop around, but you never know.

What makes me laugh is that I saw something at an STe affiliate site, I need the item. However if I just walk into the competion’s store, which is on my way home from work, I save about $20 on the item, plus $10 shipping PLUS my 5-7 business day wait time.

Lovely right?

Mike …
That’s just ONE athletic team. What happens when the rest of the activities try to raise funds this way? It doesn’t scale: you spam faculty and staff for your website, the drama club spams them for their website, the chess club, the choir, the band. And next thing you know, no one has made enough money to cover the initial investment.

Who wins here?

The owner of the scheme, who counts on people having unbalanced legs in their downline and recruiting to balance them. And in the meantime, he doesn’t have to pay the point bonuses and gets the signup fees.

The owner of the scheme, who counts on people seeing it as an opportunity and not seeing the What happens if a large group does it?

Mike …
That’s just ONE athletic team. What happens when the rest of the activities try to raise funds this way? It doesn’t scale: you spam faculty and staff for your website, the drama club spams them for their website, the chess club, the choir, the band. And next thing you know, no one has made enough money to cover the initial investment.

Who wins here? Well, DUH! the recruiter, who pockets $100 or more of your $450, and the upline from the recruiter.

And the owner of the scheme, who counts on people having unbalanced legs in their downline and recruiting to balance them. And in the meantime, he doesn’t have to pay the point bonuses and gets the signup fees.

The owner of the scheme, who counts on people seeing it as an opportunity and not seeing the What happens if a large group does it?

And the affiliated shopping sites … with the magic of the internet, you can show a whole different webpage to someone coming from an affiliate link than you do Joe Random Consumer coming from Google. People coming from STE sites probably have an HTML tag on them that says “SUCKER!”. It would be a trivialbit of programming to write a script that both offers a 20% bonus and increases the price 25% onan item.

Ronald J. Riley is using this blog for free advertising. Have you seen his long list of links that he posts over and over again? His posts really have nothing to do with MLM’s or their legitimacy. He talking about inventors, shills, IP addresses, and tracking people down to investigate them. What is this all about?

Ronald J. Riley says, “It seems pretty clear to me that some of the posters to this discussion are shills. Might I suggest Tracy that you pull the IP addresses of everyone shilling for MLM’s on this discussion and post those addresses. I will then have our our research group see if they can track down who the posters are.”

What’s with this guy? Hasn’t he ever heard of the first ammendment? or should we all censor our opinions because Ronald J. Riley is going to hunt us down? What kind of “shill” would be posting here anyway? and what is Ronald J. Riley going to do to people who express their opinions? If Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are entitled to their “opinions”, why can’t anyone voice their version of the truth.

Riley also threatens, “It seems pretty clear that there are stooges representing the interests of a questionable MLM companies on this forum. What I am interested in is seeing if our researchers can tie some of those posters to a specific MLM company and then exposing who they are stooging for.” Once you stop laughing - you wonder what medication he’s on.

Riley continues, “By the way, Early today I posted a synopsis about the SLAPP threats to a forum where many top investigative journalists hang out.”

oh yes, I’m sure these “top investigative journalists” want to prohibit feedom of speech - and I’m sure they’re very interested in Riley’s legal expertise.

Ronald J. Riley is simply using this blog to paste as many of his URL’s as he posiibly can. He’s not fooling anyone as he tries to promote all his areas of “expertise”. On the other hand, he does provide wonderful comic relief - so maybe he does have a purpose after all.

In terms of MLM’s - like all businesses- there good ones and bad ones. I’ve had a terrific experience with an MLM specializing in woman’s home products, but I will not advertise it here. I also had a bad experience with an MLM selling a special juice from another country and I resigned after a few days.

It doesn’t take a rock scientist to disseminate the good MLM’s from the bad ones. It’s also very easy to identify ponzy-schemes and pyramid schemes because usually they have nothing to sell of any value - or sometimes nothing to sell at all.

The basic MLM structure has been around for 50 years - they’re either inline with the basic format (give or take a few %’s or additional downlines) - or it’s a short-lived scheme. Just use your common sense and you’ll know soon enough.

You certainly don’t need Ronald J. Riley to track down URL’s or help you sue any company he deems worthy of a SLAPP suit.

I went to a meeting tonight, and it sounds too good to be true. I’m thinking of joining, but want to make sure I’m doing the right thing.

The person at the extreme top of this thread is completely unaware of how commissions are paid….

They wrote…
—————————————————————————
What I discovered through both the telecon and through asking questions of a member is that they actually recommend that you seek to place all additional signups on your outermost left and outermost right legs. This drives an exponential increase in membership the deeper you make those outer legs. Why waste time building up 1 level below you when you can build 6 levels down on the outside, right?…still seems OK I guess…
[snip]

Where this is problematic is that you only get your bonuses if your points are distributed with AT LEAST 1/3 on your RIGHT and 1/3 on your LEFT.
————————————————————————–

They are assuming that the tTOTAL POINTS points have to split 1/3 - 2/3 .. in order to score commision

This is the authors flaw.

As example lets say there are 99,000 points in total. Under the authors premise in order to score commissions 66,000 and 33,000 would have to be distributed across the left and right sides respectively. ,,, well that is simply untrue

Let me elaborate. lets say you start on the first of the month with 66,000 on the left and zero on the right…

and the following commission schedule

STEP 1 Is 600 points - which pays $50 (400 left - 200 Right)
STEP 2 Is 1200 points - which pays $100 (800 left - 400 right)
STEP 3 is 2400 points - which pays $100 (1600 left - 800 right)
STEP 4 is 4800 points - which pays $150 (3200 left - 1600 right)

As points are generated on the right, in the increments outlined in the commission schedule. Payments are made to your STE account. Once step four is achieved the total of 4800 points are deducted from you total. As such 3200 from the left and 1600 from the right…

In this example with only 1600 points generated on the right you earn $550
Your month end point totals would be

Left - 66000 (start of month) -3200 (deducted for Scoring) = 62800
Right - 1600 accrued thru the month - 1600 deducted for scoring = 0

SO bottom line is even if one side goes ballistic…as long as there is some activity on the other side that meet the 2/3 - 1 /3 of the Step/Score requirement — commissions are going to be paid.

Sorry, but this company has “pyramid scheme qualities” written all over it. It sounds good in theory - make money when you shop online and get others to do the same. But the sign-up fees are too high, and at the end of the day, the REAL name of the game is signing up as many people as you can. It’s not really about shopping. And plenty of people will never earn back their sign-up fee because they won’t be able to find enough suckers willing to fork over $500 to the scheme. Consumers are better off shopping for good deals FOR FREE on their own.

This reminds me of Burnlounge, the company that was going to revolutionize the music industry. Burnlounge got sued by the FTC! In my opinion, ShopToEarn, is a waste of time and money. You’re not really building a business with them, you’re just participating in a grand scheme to recruit as many new victims as possible. The amount of money you’ll save by shopping through these sites is questionable at best, and in many cases, I think you’ll actually lose money. Avoid these companies like the plague.

BurnLounge … forgot about that one, where we would all become each other’s online music stores and get rich. It’s dead, des[pite its supporters claiming it would “revolutionize the music business”.

Server not found: Firefox can’t find the server at http://www.burnlounge.com

Then there was the book buying one, where your erudite and learned downline would make you rich buying books from you for above Barnes & Noble prices. It’s dead too.

Yes, the internet has made major changes in the way things are marketed, but it has done so by getting rid of the middlemen, not creating extra layers of them.

Wow!!!!!!! I’m a broker with STE since June and have followed the blogs posted since the “Cease and Desist” was posted on Everyday Finance.I’m amazed that so many “well informed,educated people” stoop to high school style bullying.Tracy’s either underage or extremely immature and unprofessional in her comments,pointing out typos and insulting people’s intelligence! I won’t try to promote or otherwise suggest this is the best money making opportunity but I won’t smear it either.There may be the right to free speech/press but there are thousand of lawsuits everyday for SLANDER! I wonder why Everyday Finance took down their blog immediately after the STE lawyer warned them about what they wrote…must have found out about Slander lawsuits… As far as Ronald Riley goes, I’m not impressed with his “expertise” . How “shady” does he look to you Tracy??Advertising on your blog(as you warned STE members not to) seems a lot like “RECRUITING” or trying to get more”VICTIMS”. I will check in on this childish blog, just to see how far it’ll go before you get a Cease and Desist from our lawyer.MLM or pyramid: we’re all making our money back on this,and then some.As far as if it’ll keep getting bigger or sink, we take a gamble in any business and some lose a lot more$.Can you guarantee any business will work forever? My opinion is: if you’re not interested don’t join.Stay with your 9-5 job and don’t take a chance on something that can(with a little effort)mean a nicer retirement income than barely enough to live on.Tracy, good luck with your book and make sure you never”recruit victims” to buy it.

Dana - Thanks for your insightful comments. FYI - Ronald Riley had permission to put his links on his comments. MLM scammers like you do not. It’s simple. This site is not for MLM scammers to promote their schemes.

Dana needs to an economics class if she thinks this is a legitimate business. Dana, ShopToEarn is just a variation on many other similar schemes in which the product is merely a pretext for buying a position on the pyramid. All the buyers are investors in the scheme. The main money that will be siphoned up the pyramid is the price paid up-front (start up fees) by each new investor to get a position. The money from the product is minimal and would require a massive downline to profit from. The up-front payments, the lack of retail sales, and requirement for recruiting are all hallmarks of the pyramid scam masquerading as a business. Once the FTC catches on to this scheme, there will be an investigation.

ShopToEarn will be pleased that they drew my attention. I already work with the FTC and will see that people at a high level are educated about ALL the concerns which have been raised about ShopToEarn’s business model.

I have launched many businesses in my career and would have never considered one based on a 5% GROSS margin. More realistic is a 50-100% gross margin. Furthermore, I am not paid by any of the referenced organizations and volunteer my time. I can do this because I am a successful inventor-entrepreneur. I retired from a regular job in 1990 and have not had to work on anything which I do not want to do since.

Isn’t my situation exactly what people chasing the promise if not the reality of profits which are being promised hope to accomplish?

Unlike ShopToEarn apologists, I sign my name and disclose my affiliations when I post. It is not the about advertising because the organizations I am associated with are already well known in our target audience.

Ronald J. Riley,

Speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - http://www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - http://www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - http://www.patentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST.

Right on Tracy and Ron! ShopToEarn is a BIG SCAM!!!! Here is my 2 cents. Did anyone ever ask the question, “Why didn’t the founders of ShopToEarn sell their products straight to the customer?” The people behind ShopToEarn like to tell their customers that they want to give the public access to sell products and opportunity to make money instead of having big companies such as Wal-Mart reap all the benefits. The truth, however, is that they make more money selling these “stores” to people like you, and do far less working than trying to sell the products. Because who is ShopToEarn’s number one advertiser (sucker)? You! The person trying to recruit innocent people to scam. The heads, CEOs, whoever is behind ShopToEarn does not need to work hard to find customers because they know people’s greed will lead them to ShopToEarn.
Yes, many people have made a profit off this little scam. However, this profit has all been by scamming others. So people will get rich, but many will not. In a pyramid scheme, there are very few on top, but many at the bottom. You may have a friend trying to get you to join this great opportunity. Of course he is, he is trying to make some money. Your friend knows he is not going to make any money selling products. Your friend may even entice you about all the profit he made. Trust me, your friend is not lying, he made a profit, but mostly because of idiots like you. And after scamming you off, you will now carry the burden of having to find other idiots to scam. So for those who don’t have a conscience, this is indeed a great way to make some money. But, just like any pyramid, there is a bottom. And those are the ones who will be the biggest losers.

I thought that everyone may be interested in the fact that all knowing and wonderful defender of MLM’s control of who talks about them now has a live web site. Check it out at http://www.Gerald-P-Nehra-sucks.com. I have been busy with other things, which is why http://www.ShopToEarn-sucks.com is not up yet. But the more shills and stooges thresh around here the more likely I am to make time to give them the attention they crave.

I believe that STL could improve their position by increasing the discount to 15% and lowering the upfront fee to $50 with a $25 per year renewal fee. More money for the people doing the work and less for the people at the top

Ronald J. Riley,

Speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - http://www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - http://www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - http://www.patentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST.

less for the people at the top!!!!!

Less for the upline? That’s blasphemy in a MLM. They are in it for all the money thay can make before the FTC shuts them down like Burnlounge and a few others.

I joined this past month as a business broker, paid the $449, and then guaranteed to the people i recruited in that if they didn’t get their original investment back within thirty days, i’d refund it to them. I received my first check for $4,100, look forward to telling more people about this opportunity, but more importantly, will honor my committment to the original ten people that i brought in to STE.

DO THE MATH!

If I go to your ShopToEarn site, and I purchase $1,000 worth of merchandise. Which is more than you will sell in your ShopToEarn career. So $1,000 purchase from your site. You would make only $80 (Assuming you get 8%). Freaking 80 dollars!!!!! that is nothing!!

My friend got his ShopToEarn site 2-3 months ago. NOTHING!!!!!! Not a drip, he doesn’t even want to talk about it in front of me.

All, and all. ShopToEarn is stupid

The smarter people, who are able to see the big picture Laugh at the idea of ShopToEarn being Legit, & Successful.

Anyhow, 1 guy is getting super rich off this. and it’s the dude that created it. And maybe those who are at the top of the Pyramid Scheme.

It’s all about the sign up fees…not merchandise!

8%??? No way. Most of the payouts are far lower!

I jonined against my will and at the insistance of my husbands family.
I personnaly have not had much success swaying people to pay the initial $448.00 sign up fee, but have seen my family members checks and networks grow. I”ve seen my cousins check grow $1,100 in one day and her mothers $100s in a day. I’ve looked at their networks and noticed that both were out of balance. My cousins only by a few hundred, but her mother by more than thirtyfour thousand. My question is weather or not she has been able to SCORE! and get her bonuses despite this fact…still waiting to talk to her personally, as she lives out of state!

Hi, I almost joined ste after doing allot of research I did not join. I have to say after reading allot of Tracy post she has good points. I have a friend that has made $1245.00 in her first week. I just can’t pull the trigger at this time. Being in sales for along time, I could make this work. Getting people to sign up for $448 friends and family and them loosing money because they did not work hard at it. I would feel bad. I see allot of people has bash Tracy, maybe this is not for everyone. Tracy is letting people know and she has the right to do that.Then on the other hand people have the right to try it, if they loose their money Iam sure allot of people loose money gambling to. I will sit back and watch for now to see how my friend will do at this business.

The bottom line is that STE is a scam, a swindle, a fraud! It’s an illegal pyramid because they are violating the 70% rule. 70% of the revenue has to come from product sales.

If you’ve made any money on STE (like some people in this blog claim), it has been through signing others up…. period. That revenue source will quickly dry up. The underlying “business” is not going to make you enough money to even cover the Yearly fees.

And if suckering your friends and family makes you feel good, then I feel sorry for you.

What a tirade going on here. But one has to notice it’s full of OPINION about pyramids and scams - no fact. Give me a dime and I’ll give you an opinion about anything. The Internet is overflowing with opinion. And far as I know, the powers-that-be at the FTC offices and the Attorney General are not investigating STE.

Dave, I like your idea:

“I joined this past month as a business broker, paid the $449, and then guaranteed to the people i recruited in that if they didn’t get their original investment back within thirty days, i’d refund it to them. I received my first check for $4,100, look forward to telling more people about this opportunity, but more importantly, will honor my commitment to the original ten people that i brought in to STE.”

I thought of something similar, but wanted to offer only half of their investment back hoping that would make them put forth more effort.

Dave, how do you make this work so YOU don’t get beat?

And about the STE discounts folks. Let’s grow up. We can shop the Internet all day and probably find a lower price somewhere. With or without STE, that’s going to happen. Countless times, both online and in brick and mortar stores, I have bought something and then found a better price at another store. When I joined STE, there was no guarantee of the lowest prices available. That’s crap. If you see a better price somewhere else, then go buy it there.

I recently joined Shop to Earn and I am really upset. They are starting a new “rule” in September that all of your point “flush” as in YOU LOSE THEM, if you don’t spend $100 on Shop to Earth every month. This is not what i was told when i signed up and I think it is fraudulent to change a rule like that after getting people to sign up under another assumption. The products on Shop to Earth are overpriced, and I would never be able to spend $100 a month on things I don’t need. Especially in this economy! I am really angry and feel like I have been duped. Is there anything I can do legally against them?

Beth - you don’t have it right… . Double check on the details here… All of your points will not flush. Also this is not a new rule and it has been discussed on every call that I’ve ever heard….

With so many choices now on the Earth side it should be easy to substitute green products for the unhealthy ones found in your grocery store. I’ve found that with the 15-20% cash back, the time savings and gas/auto expense savings that the Earth pricing is competitive if not better than the grocery store.

Beth, ask ShoptoEarn that you have been misled, and ask for a refund. If they deny your request, submit a complaint on the Better Business Bureau (BBB) website. Once you issue a complaint with them, do the same in the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) website. It’s all you have at this point.

Or you can buy a few $44.99 Earth Safe Balanced Women Vitamin bottles every month.

I did ask Shop to Earn for a refund and they said that this flushing points thing has been in the commission rules since the start and that they would not be issuing any refunds.

As for being wrong about the points thing, this is directly from their site and their recent emails..

If Bob does not generate at least $100 in monthly business volume through his website’s link to ShopToEarth before 12:00 am EST on the last day of November and every month thereafter, Bob will forfeit all SCORE! Commissions and the points associated with those SCORE! Commissions associated with that month.

The $100 monthly business volume requirement is in tune with The Company’s mission of helping people become healthier and wealthier by using products that are good for us and good for the planet.

They are going to start flushing points in September if you don’t spend $100 a month.

If I am truly wrong about this Larry I would really love to know because I hate to lose $450 that i just spent on this business.

Some of the points i’ve read here are worth noting. i joined ste last month and have done ok; but i do agree that the $449 fee is a little steep. I think their business structure would be improved if instead they charge $250 to be a broker/web site owner, and $49 to shop; would be much more attractive to people thinking of joining considering todays economy.

Beth,

The important point to remember is that the points that will be flushed are those points that have contributed to a Step/Score commission in that month only. If you have addtional points not associated with a Step or Score those points are not flushed.

Also remeber that your cash back savings, and referral bonuses are not affected by this as well.

So lets say that you achieve Step One ($50.00 and 600 pts 400/200) if you do not purchase the Earth side you will lose the 600 points. And obviously if you have no need for the products then it may not be worth spending the $85 after refund. If however you would have spent lets say $60 at the grocery store on similar products (i.e. Health and Beauty aids) then the net spend to you is about a $20 bill. When you collect your commission of $50 you are actually ahead by 30..

To Simplify,

Step one is achieved Commission ? +50.00
Earth Spending after refunds ? -85.00
Estimated spend at grocery store still in your pocket
? +60.00

Net savings still in your pocket ? +25.00

Not to mention the,

1. Gas savings, my store is 18 miles round trip that’s about a gallon of gas
2. Time savings… how many isles can you bypass now at the grocery store.
3. 15 points generated for the earth side shopping
4. Not to mention it is a good thing for the environment

It gets more interesting as the commissions get higher,

substitute Step 2 150.00
and Step 3 250.00
or Step 4 Score of 550.00

into the model above and you can see how the earth side shopping is worth it.

Hope this helps, I’m just trying to stick to the facts on my postings, I’m obviously ignoring the rantings posted throughout this thread.

Wow. This is a crazy website. I just went to a Shop To Earn meeting tonight at my friends house in Fl. It was interesting, but it was a bit cultish. A lot of people getting caught up basically in the greed of it not really paying attention or asking serious, honest questions. NOT to mention when I did this, I didnt get upfront answers. I got shoooed off, maybe it was just a bad present, maybe this company and its concept is a bunch of BS. I dont know. Im not qualified to make that decision and will be doing more homework. One thing I can say to anyone signing up is to READ THE FINE PRINT, especially when it comes to purchases, did you know that a lot of these places/merchants have signup fees, or only certain credit cards they will allow and yes, you must comparison shop, there is no LOW PRICE guarantee at STE and maybe, just maybe a lot of the prices are padded. Who knows? The whole right, left leg thing is very complicated, but I think thats the point. There is an old saying in psychology, “To keep the rat running, theres gotta be a reward” or payoff….just like in Vegas Baby….cant quite get my head around it but yes there is something not right about it and that makes me hesitate…..

I have been on STE for a few months now and it’s a lot of hype. I haven’t made a dime! No one wants to join. They all say it’s a pyramid scheme.

The person who got me to join has made money, yes from networking and getting someone like me to join so they can reap a commission from my sign up.

If anything I would just want my money back but they won’t do that. STE does not return my calls or anything. They are basically ignoring me. What kind of business is this?

The person who got me involved (who used to be my friend) said just sign up 3 people and you will earn back that it cost to join. Some solution. I would have to lie (scam) a few people with what I now believe to be lies to make back what I paid to join?

STE will not last very long with this type of pyramid model. STE is destined to fail. What a joke.

And when I read comments like Larry’s, he sounds like my X friend who got me in. Spewing any and every lie just for a commission.

Larry … what do you mean by if you do not purchase the Earth side you will lose the 600 points.

Arnold and Beth,

Don’t bother complaining to the BBB. The BBB is a membership organization, so it’s kind of like complaining to the chamber of commerce. They don’t care. They protect their own.

Instead, direct your complaint to the attorney general in the state where the business (not just STE but any biz that does not deliver what you pay for) is located. In STE’s case, it’s Florida. AG addresses and names are generally easy to find on the internet.

The attorney general has the power to actually do something. Businesses do not like having the AG breathing down their necks. When a well-known exterminator failed to get rid of carpenter ants — for which they were hired — and gave me the runaround, I contacted the AG. Voila, I got an apology and a full refund. The BBB just apologized because they could not do anything.

Larry,

I don’t understand which points get flushed. How do you distinguish which points get flushed? Points are Points right? Points from shopping, points from people shopping under you, points from referrals under you.. They all flush right? I just don’t get this step/score thing? I have looked at the overview numerous times and have been on the conference call. But it is still unclear and it is hard to break it all down as “simply” as they put it.

For example, what exactly do you have to do to make Step 1? Step 2? I know how many points you need, etc. But if you achieve Step 1, you get $50 regardless of if you lose the points or not? I thought you had to get 600 points to earn $50. I am very confused, and I will definitely not bring others into this program unless I get things explained to me in much clearer terms. From what I have read on this site thusfar I am VERY skeptical at this point.

That’s part of the scam, Beth. Make the system so complicated that you can’t possibly calculate how much you’re really supposed to be paid now or in the future.

Oops, sorry, Beth and Arnold,

I believe they’re in Nevada.

If you want to legitimately make money back on your purchases, there are a ton of websites that offer money back and you don’t have to pay a dime. Why not take your $480 put it in an account for yourself, a relative, a child and then join one of these websites? I’m sure people can refer you to one of them. I know of a couple such as: UPromise, FatWallet, LiveSearch, etc.
This company pushes the envelope when it comes to scams. Wake up, this is no different than Amway, Monavie, etc. I wonder how many of those people fell for those companies too. Let us know how you’re doing in a 6 month period when your pyramid, I mean tree, is uneven and your not getting your full commission. Then explain to your friends why they got snaked into paying an initial $480 for shopping online.
For those who think Tracey is a young and naive. How about doing a little research and check out her credentials. This company brought MAJOR negative publicity to it by going after somebody for posting their opinion. Their HIGH powered attorney sends an e-mail to Cease & Desist. HAHAHAHAHA! Their attorney actually tries to intimidate by an e-mail????????
That right there should be an eye opener that an attorney of a great, wonderful, and legitimate business (that’s sarcasm) would send an e-mail.

By the way, what’s the MINIMUM monthly that you have to spend to stay active?? I heard you have to spend at least one hundred dollars a month?? What happens when you don’t spend a $100 in any month??

There seems to be a lot of nonsense being thrown back and forth here from both sides. I have been looking into STE very carefully and with great skepticism. The only person on this board, who we can verify credentials on, is Tracy. So, I would like to think that I can get an honest, thorough, professional, well thought out reason as to why STE is a scam. One liners, insults and false info is not enough. Saying that it is too complex, and hard for people to understand is just not PROOF enough for me. Now, again, I’m on the fence here and have done a lot of research. The only side here that has the facts out in the open, on their website, on the calls, and at the seminars, is STE. In addition, the only person on this board that I feel confident about what their saying and has been factual is Larry and maybe a couple others. If I’m misguided here, please show me the light

Tracy, please don’t misconstrue what I’m saying as a slight in any way. However, as I read the discussions I can’t help but get discouraged and cannot gather enough facts to rule out STE. Most of the arguments against the company so far that I’ve read have been vague at best.

Can you Tracy, or anyone, please give me 5 bullets points as to how this company is scamming people. I would then like to take this straight to them to answer. And please don’t say it’s too complex for people to understand.

At the same time, if there are any STE EXPERTS on here that can speak to any of these bullet points, please do. But let’s stop with the bull and get down to facts.

Thank you all in advance.

I’d suggest you read this post. I walk you through it step by step. Avoid Shop to Earn!

http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/2008/07/12/more-on-why-shoptoearn-sucks-mypowermall-teamnational/

Tracy,

I actually spoke with Pat Walsh last week in NYC at one of their big seminars. I spoke to him of how I was not happy with the change of rules or the things I am finding out about the “details” of thsi program. He told me that night that if I wanted to get out I could, and he said that I could get a full refund. I was unable to stay for the whole evening and was not able to get any personal information from him. So, I wrote a support ticket to Shop to Earn regarding my conversation with him and asked for my refund. Now they are just ignoring me and closed the ticket. Is there anything I can do?

I also had shopping that has still not showed up on the website. They say it can take 30-90 days for your cash to show up. How is a person supposed to keep track of all of this if you have other people shopping on your site? And the only way to communicate with them is thru this support ticket process where they can just choose to ignore you if they want.

Frustrated and sorry I ever did this..

Tracey,
Please help us laugh a little more and tell us who the person(s) are that are posing with different names from the same URL. That would be great to see who’s trying to support their own story. My guess is that Spongebob and Mike are talking to themselves on the same computer. Ada seemed to be jumping in there too.
When they, supposedly, get their “checks”, are they actually checks or are they just the computer generated things that are on this ridiculous STE site? As you’ve mentioned, if you punch in different names, most of the people/victims are not making any money.
What does it take to have this company investigated before to many victims are conned? I’ll be one of the first to sign my name.

Tracy,
I apologize for spelling your name incorrect numerous times.

So, what happens if you don’t buy $100 worth of Shop to Earth?

Carol,
As of today, i had to reimburse only one person that i’d signed up, and that was because he didn’t show or tell anyone about the business. When I show this to someone, and I emphasize this is a “show me business”, I tell them to do two things: 1) tell the person to go to their website and watch the overview video in the upper right hand corner and 2) ***********Nice try Dave, but I don’t allow promotion of your scams here. No recruiting! *****************

This is interesting because I have heard from another victim of this scheme who says they have asked for a refund and while promised one it has not materialized. I advised them to file complaints with the FTC and both their and Shop To Earns state attorney generals.

If Shop To Lose is going to avoid serious problems they must start returning monies to any dissatisfied clients. Any other approach will eventually lead to serious legal problems.

It is human nature to want to get the maximum return for the least effort—greed. Most people who are defrauded are conned into thinking that they will get easy money when in fact all they are doing is giving others easy money. There are no free lunches. If it looks too good to be true then all of you need reach for your wallets and hold on for dear life. If the scheme is being pitched by a really smooth talker who is trying to get you hand over your money in response to an emotional high pressure pitch you need to consider why they sell in that manner. And then you need to run from them as fast as you can.

This is not about them making you rich, it is about you making them rich. Most of the people who join this will end up much poorer while a few will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Ronald J. Riley,

Speaking only on my own behalf.
Affiliations:
President - http://www.PIAUSA.org - RJR at PIAUSA.org
Executive Director - http://www.InventorEd.org - RJR at InvEd.org
Senior Fellow - http://www.patentPolicy.org
President - Alliance for American Innovation
Caretaker of Intellectual Property Creators on behalf of deceased founder Paul Heckel
Washington, DC
Direct (202) 318-1595 - 9 am to 9 pm EST.

I have joined and have researched this to the end.. it is approved by the Fla. Attorney general.. and SEC ..before you call things a scam you should do your homework..
I work for a living and have always been hesistant on things.. i am taking my chance on this one..

It is not “approved” by the SEC or the Florida Attorney General. Why would you write such lies?

how do you know it has not been approved by the Fla. Attorney General’s Office