More on why ShopToEarn sucks (and so do MyPowerMall and TeamNational)
Online shopping multi-level marketing companies (MLMs) aren’t new. My Power Mall (MPM) has been around for a while, Team National has been in the mix too, and now Shop to Earn has popped up and is being aggressively marketed by its members.
My bottom line on all of these companies: Don’t waste your time or money. You can find better deals on your purchases outside their systems. And the systems are really nothing more than typical MLM recruiting schemes. Shopping is not the objective, recruiting is. Let me explain these programs to you…
The guy who started the ShopToEarn, Patrick Welsh, supposedly spent 10 years planning it. Any business professional worth their salt knows there’s something desperately wrong with spending ten years setting up a company, but who are we to judge? Here’s what the site says:
Pat has spent the last 10 years creating and developing this ShopToEarn platform that couples networking and e-commerce. By forming partnerships with the biggest names in retail while seeking out positive partnerships with the finest green companies, our mission of helping people become healthier and wealthier is being realized by many.
The concept of this program seems simple enough: Get money back on items you’re already going to shop for. Except there are already programs out there that offer this, and there’s no fee to sign up. For example, a site called Jellyfish rebates part of every purchase you make through the site. No fees. No catches. No recruiting.
What does it cost you to become a part of ShopToEarn? To become a “website owner” it’s $349, or to become just a “business builder” it’s $99. To become a “broker” which is a website owner and business builder, it’s $448. There is also an annual renewal fee that is charged, which is $69 for a website owner or business builder, or $119 for a broker.
How does ShopToEarn work? Basically the site is a huge collection of affiliate links owned by Shop to Earn. When you want to buy something, you click on an icon, which takes you to the particular retailer’s site. Shop to Earn is paid a commission each time you shop using those links to the retailers, and you are given part of that money.
You can see that all the icons are affiliate links just by holding your mouse over them and looking at the URL you’re going to be clicking on:
- click.linksynergy.com.*****
- www.jdoqocy.com/********
- tkqlhce.com/******
Most of these affiliate links offer payments in the range of 1% to 10% of purchases, with the most typical payments being 2% to 4%. The company says you can make up to 30% back, but those payouts don’t occur often. Sometimes bonuses or volume incentives are offered by the retailers.
But under the best case scenario, the “owner” of a ShoptoEarn store could get a little more than half of that affiliate money. And that’s only if you max out every possible commission and bonus, and meet the rules of the complicated commission pay plan. I bet your actual payout will be much less if you’re like about 90% of the people involved.
Who will make money from ShopToEarn? How many people do you suppose will even make their initial investment back from shopping? Even if you were to make 5% back on your purchases, you’d have to purchase $9,000 of merchandise to even earn back your initial investment of $450. And I’m not even convinced that most people are even making an average of 5%.
Those figures demonstrate that without recruiting new people into the company, the average consumer is probably unlikely to make their initial investment back.
Could you do this without Shop To Earn? Absolutely. You could earn affiliate money with almost all of the retailers featured on their site, and you would keep all the money. You could do this on your own, and for only the cost of web hosting.
These affiliate links aren’t hard to get. All you need is a website. You sign up with LinkShare or CommissionJunction or Performics (now ConnectCommerce via Google), and voila… you have access to the exact same retailers. I have accounts with all these companies, and therefore have access to the exact same retailers that ShoptoEarn does. Except I get to keep all the money. (Hmmmmm… wanna sign up with me? I’ll only charge you $350… Just kidding!)
Is it about shopping or recruiting? The truth with this company, like all other MLMs out there, is that the purpose is not really to get you to shop online. It’s not about the product or service they pretend to sell.
The purpose (in my opinion) is to continuously recruit new marks into the scheme. They’re each paying about $450 to sign up for the opportunity to receive money back when they shop online. And you’re going to get a piece of that when you sponsor people into the scheme.
The actual money to be made from shopping is very little. The affiliate payments aren’t huge, so it only stands to reason that the portion of the affiliate money paid to members is even smaller. Unless you recruit a bunch of people in, you will probably never make much.
The die hard MLM fans will say, “Of course you have to work hard and recruit. It’s a business. Go out there and sell it!”
Except who wants to sell a recruiting scheme, disguised as an online shopping mall? Do you want to lie to your potential recruits each time you tell them it’s all about shopping from their own store? It’s not about shopping, in my opinion. It’s about recruiting. Every MLM is not about the product or service. It’s really about recruiting new marks to the scheme.
Is it a pyramid scheme? People pay a fee to become a member of the scheme, hoping that they can recoup their money by recruiting more members who also pay fees to join the scheme. When you recruit a downline, the structure sure looks like a pyramid to me.
This recruiting goes on continuously, and the bottom of the pyramid is ever-expanding. The people at the bottom can only hope that they can find enough new marks to recoup their original investment. Check out this graphic from the company itself, and see if you think it looks like a pyramid or not.
Now the company and its representatives will tell you that they’re not a pyramid scheme, and that pyramid schemes are illegal. Pyramid schemes are illegal. And MLM companies like Shop to Earn use the guise of a product or service to make it appear that they’re legitimate. After all, a pure pyramid scheme just exchanges money. If an MLM injects a product or service into the mix (no matter how undesirable or worthless that product), they have just legitimized their operation.
Is this a new idea? The idea of buying items “from yourself” and getting a piece of the action is not new. This has been one of the main principles in Amway (Quixtar) forever. Go to any indoctrinated Amway person’s house, and you’ll see all of their products being used in the kitchen and basement and bathrooms.
And they’ll tell you, “I’m going to use cleaning products anyway, so I might as well buy them from myself and make some money along the way.” Why add to the profits of Wal-Mart, when you can profit for yourself?
Except it’s really no bargain to shop from yourself if you don’t have a chance to find the absolute best price on the internet. If you’re limited to a finite number of retailers, you’re probably paying more for your items than you really need to. So where’s the profit if you’re overpaying or not getting the specific brands or items you’d prefer?
Isn’t this an inexpensive way to be able to start my own business? Ummmm, no. You don’t really own a business when you sign up with ShoptoEarn. Heck, you don’t own anything with them, other than your login and password. You can build a downline, but you don’t own them either. The company really owns them, and you operate as long as they allow you to. When the company goes away, so does your “business.”
Don’t I earn commissions from purchases by my downline? Yes, you can get commissions and bonuses, but as with any MLM, there are lots of catches and confusing details to the pay plan. As with all MLMs, you must “qualify” to get commissions. You don’t just get them automatically when someone you recruited buys something. You initially need 3 recruits to purchase the website owner option and generate $100 of “monthly volume” to even qualify to get a commission.
Then there are the complicated bonuses that you could get depending on your number of recruits and and their purchases. Check out these two illustrations of the commission structure here and here.
But I know someone who made $10,000 last month with STE!!! Yes, claims of huge earnings with MLM companies are normal. That’s how they entice you into the scheme. Sometimes these earnings are real. But the people getting the big checks are far less than 1% of all the people involved in the scheme, and that check has been generated based upon massive recruiting of new marks.
Your chances of making that much money are slim to none. And the claims that all you have to do is work hard and you’ll make that much money too? Hogwash.
There are millions of Americans who have invested significant time and money into MLM ventures and have lost money because of them. Your odds of success in an MLM are extremely low, and unlike real businesses, your hard work isn’t a good predictor of how much money you’ll make.
MLM recruiters tell you those people failed because they were lazy, didn’t want to work hard, didn’t really want to make any money, or just wanted a get-rich-quick scheme. Those are nice phrases to explain away the high failure rates in multi-level marketing schemes, but they’re just not true. The truth is that the structure of MLMs ensures that the vast majority of people will fail to turn a profit.
What other problems are inherent with ShopToEarn? The prices of the products through these online shopping malls are said to be higher than with other retailers. I don’t know how true this is, but I do know that you’re limited in what retailers you can buy from. It’s not like ShoptoEarn is a free-for-all and you get money no matter where you shop.
There are only certain stores (a lot of them, yes) but not every major store. And remember that the retailers themselves have to make money and might be pricing items a bit higher to cover this affiliate commission that they pay.
Another problem I see is that membership in a program might encourage people to buy things they otherwise wouldn’t. Oh, I know it’s all about self-control and stuff. I’m just saying that you might be tempted to spend more than you otherwise would because it seems like a good deal.
And as always, shipping charges can be a problem when shopping online. It’s important to factor that into the purchase. There are plenty of times when the shipping charges more than cancel out your commission on the purchase, so it’s not worth it.
What about the other companies that offer these shopping programs? MyPowerMall initially looks like a better option than ShoptoEarn because there is no sign-up fee. However, there is a catch, of course. You must buy at least one thing a month to keep your store with MyPowerMall.They cleverly call this program “One Thing.” If you don’t make a purchase during a month, you lose your store. (Well, the owner of the company gets your store and anyone who thought they were shopping with you is now shopping with her!)
Team National uses a similar concept as Shop To Earn and My Power Mall, but it is much more expensive to sign up. Depending on who you believe, the TN membership costs between $795 and $2,195. They call what you’re “buying” a “benefits package.” Apparently jewelry and insurance are some of the more prominent offerings of TeamNational, but there are other things available as well.
It’s going to take a lot of recruiting and buying to earn your money back with Team National. And as with the other shopping sites, consumers often find that they can get better deals elsewhere on their purchases, so they’d actually be losing money if they bought via TeamNational.
What’s the bottom line? In my opinion, ShopToEarn, MyPowerMall, and TeamNational are a waste of time and money. You’re not really building a business with them, you’re just participating in a grand scheme to recruit as many new victims as possible. The amount of money you’ll save by shopping through these sites is questionable at best, and in many cases, I think you’ll actually lose money. Avoid these companies like the plague.
Note to promoters of these schemes: You will not be allowed to offer your services here. Don’t link to your site or ask for people to contact you. If you do, your comment will be deleted. This site is not a place for you to advertise your scam.
That’s probably the most ridiculous explanation I’ve ever heard. Positive press coverage! You will NOT see any POSITIVE press charges, that’s a guarantee. NOT IN THE PROGRAM MEANS if somebody smart, who didn’t get scammed into this, but decided to buy from a friend (who got scammed in) then that would be an outside sale. WAKE UP!!!!!!
“Spread like wildfire” Last I heard nobody cares for wildfires, unless of course your an arsonist????????
Answer the questions Joe, if it’s such a great company.
How much of your income has come from RECRUITING?
How much from Shopping?
BurnLounge grew this fast and was a “HOMERUN”. Go to youtube and check out videos of BurnLounge and check out their cult-like meetings and seminars. It’s identical!
People raving about how great it is. It’s going to revolutionize!!!!!! Guess what the FTC did with them. You guessed it, SHUTDOWN. Wake up!
Maybe you’re right, maybe I should just return my $42,000 and forget about all this STE non-sense? Maybe then you guys will sleep better?
But the real question is, what do I do with next month’s direct deposit and then November’s direct deposit? what about those juicy amounts that will hit my account in the first quarter of 2009 after all the Holiday shopping rings up like a cash register for me? HELP!
How do I get in touch with the 700+ people in my downline? How do I stop the 15-20 new people each day from joining my group? How do I prevent my downline from growing to 5,000 people by next year?
Can I have them call you Mr. Wake up? It seems like it would take someone like you with your passion to help bring the bad news to all these crazy people.
Instead of wasting your time trying to HELP the STE people you don’t even know from spending $448 that they obviously can afford and willingly spend, maybe you should spend your time and passion helping the homeless? or working at a local soup kitchen? Leave these stupid arrogant $448 spending people alone and let them learn their lessons. Get up from your PC and stop inflating your ego with negativity and really help society. Go help someone who really needs help. Go donate some blood!
Joe “0″,
Your answer is a true sign of deflexion. You didn’t answer the real questions because your ability to tell the truth is BS. Therefore, your course of attention or concern goes on to another term referred to as avoidance.
STE will end up like BurnLounge guaranteed. I’m sure you’ll be on these websites & talking to the friends that did get scammed and apologize. Most likely not, “because I made my money”. What about the thousands of people that will lose? You’re so passionate (cult-like) about this company, not because it’s a great concept. Your writings TRULY show the greed that comes from MOTIVATED people (money hungry scammers). Probably because the real estate and title company took a dump. I’m sure you were real responsible with the huge money made during the real estate boom?
To the people considering this pyramid, please try to read the posts and find out what the authors motivations are. Some of us have absolutely no vested interest as others (Joe “0″) have greed and motivation for that next $100 commission that will help his INVESTMENT!!!!! Wake Up Joe “0″ and answer the questions, truthfully.
Here’s a sad truth about MLMs – Many of the people who sign up really can’t afford the $448 but the find a way to get it (late on rent, fewer groceries, miss a car payment, etc.) because they buy into this dream. They *think* this will be the answer for a better life for them.
I’m not disputing that some people in MLM make money. The people who get in early or are very, very, very lucky after getting in late, can make gobs of money. There are about 20 or 30 people in Mary Kay who make $500k or more per year. There are another 300 who make $200k to $499 a year, and another 140 to 150 who make $100k to $199k a year.
That sounds fantastic, doesn’t it?? YOU COULD BE ONE OF THOSE 500!!!
The problem is that there are about 700,000 consultants just in the United States. And another 400,000 a year who come and go, just in the United States.
What you have is a situation in which something like 99% lose money in the venture. I’ve talked to enough women who were in MK to know that it’s not because they were lazy. It’s because the MLM system has a fatal flaw which guarantees the failure (losing money) of almost all participants. This is a good piece on that:
http://www.falseprofits.com/files/e21bdbcc219481de8840ee3a857c6a9e-3.html
So while you may make tens of thousands of dollars, it’s not because you’ve created any value or helped a bunch of people. It’s essentially because people in your downline have been conned out $448 each with tales of becoming rich, when almost none of them will ever be able to reach that.
Tracy:
Sorry for the sarcasm.
Your story about Mary Kay sounds similar to my story about the brokerage houses for the last 50 years. Everyone thinks that all Stock Brokers are rich, or at least do very, very well. People leave their jobs and give it a shot, they get all their friends and families to transfer assets and also cold call others to buy stock and bonds and get rich, but most brokers fail and quit in a year or so, the brokerage house keeps most of these assets and gives these accounts to the “people on the top” , did these top earners get in early or are they just good at what they do? Maybe a combination of both. This has been going on for decades and no one cries foul. Anyway, I guess we just need to see how this plays out. Good luck to everyone in whatever you choose to do! I’m going to take a break for a while.
This is like Obama vrs McCain – 90% of the people have their favorite and are set in their ways and nothing you can say or type will change their minds.
Joe, people cry foul about the stock market game all the time. I recommend Gary Weiss’ book Wall Street versus America if you want an entertaining in depth look at it.
For that matter, people cry foul over the insurance industry, or any misstep that big companies make, like labour and environmental practices. So putting MLM up on a cross and crying about how unfairly it’s being tarred is a non-sequitor at best, or at least a pretty weak argument.
Regardless, it’s always possible to make money by taking it from other people and giving them little for it in return. It’s equally possible to make money by doing things or creating things. Those of us who actually own a business, earn revenue and pay taxes understand which one of those choices has more upside.
For all the STE people considering joining, please notice that the question still remained unanswered by Joe. That should be a BIG RED FLAG!!! Please do homework on this before losing $448.
This is directed ONLY to “Wake up, Joe”. I joined STE in June and after finding 12 people who shop on line and care about getting healthier to also join, I now have 375 people in my group. Yes, I have been fortunate to have some real motivated people working under me and I’ve made very nice money because of their efforts combined with my own.
I personally shop on line at the major reatailers and I do get cash back every month. FYI….people in this blog who constantly say that the prices are “marked up” just don’t have a clue. For the last time, you are shopping ON DRUGSTORE.COM’S WEBSITE WITH ALL THE SAME DEALS AND SHIPPING OPTIONS…. THEN you get 10% back based on your purchases.
So, here’s what I am seeing. Since it can take up to 90 days to see the cash back and points from shopping on the shoptoearn side(that’s just the retailers making sure items aren’t returned after they give cash back)I am starting to see considerable points building up from people in my downlines shopping on their own sites. I am relatively balanced and this month I have made close to $3000 with $400 just from the shopping. AND don’t forget most people who joined under me aren’t even in 90 days yet so their shopping points haven’t kicked in yet.This number will obviously increase substantially as time goes by and more people join and shop.
Now, Mr.”Wake up Joe”, these are the facts. A year from now there will be so many people under me shopping that I will have a residual income forever. I will continue to shop on my site and save money forever. I will continue to tell people what I am doing forever because I feel it’s a great company to be involved with.
If you want proof of what people are making money from in STE, I wouldn’t count on ANYONE printing out their personal back office info with peoples names and points earned from shopping and sign ups for you or anyone else in this blog to analyze. If thats a RED FLAG to you, I can’t help you any further. If ANYONE has a problem with that, then why don’t you post your W2 on this blog? See how ridiculous that sounds?
One final comment…..If you’re not involved in this company and feel that it’s not for you, don’t worry, it’s fine. MLM’s aren’t for everyone. It takes a certain personality and confidence level. You don’t have to try to convince yourself that staying away from this is the right thing to do. JUST STAY AWAY!!!! We dont want you anyway.
Sorry Joe, but your comparison to stockbrokers fails. MLM supporters often use the example of insurance agents or stockbrokers to legitimize their “opportunities.” But there are two distinct differences that make the comparison invalid.
1. Stockbrokers and insurance agents do not have anywhere near the 99% failure rate that MLMs do. I mean, isn’t that 99% figure a little staggering? Actually, not a little staggering. Very staggering. Participants in MLMs are almost guaranteed to lose money. No industry has a failure rate near that high.
2. Stockbrokers and insurance agents are brought on to sell a bona fide product or service. The focus is selling, not recruiting. Could you imagine what a circus both of those professions would be if every agent was told to go try to recruit anyone with a pulse? But they don’t. Their purpose is to sell their product.
On the other hand, the purpose of the MLM is to recruit. Everyone is encouraged to find any breathing being to sign up. The product (in Mary Kay’s case the makeup, and in STE’s case the online shopping) is incidental to the whole thing. The product is necessary to not be deemed a pure pyramid scheme, and essentially get around any laws that the FTC might be thinking of enforcing. (MLM companies know the FTC is lax and almost never takes any action against any of them.) The purpose in an MLM is not to sell. The term “direct selling” is a term used to make it seem like selling is the focus. Anyone involved in these companies knows differently. The goal is to recruit and get people to make the minimum required purchases to be commission qualified. So the goal of an MLM is to recruit new marks, while the goal of a stockbroker or insurance agent is to actually sell something. The two professions can’t be properly compared.
JoeO Fan proves my point that the company is about recruiting and not shopping. He says he’s made $3,000, with only $400 of that from shopping. That means over 86% of his income was from recruiting. Thanks for the proof.
Tracy,
You completely missed the point. It takes up to 90 days for the shopping points to kick in. Most of my downline aren’t in 90 days, which means that there will be lots more shopping points to come from the purchases that haven’t hit up yet. When I shopped and saved money, I went out and told people about it. I enjoyed saving money and I knew lots of people who shared my passion for getting cash back on their internet purchases. Those are the people who joined directly under me.
I just did the same thing that I’ve been doing for years, but now I get cash back for doing it and I couldn’t be happier.
The question I am supposedly avoiding, I think was, “How much am I making from recruiting” I answered this like 3 different times. I am making ZERO from “recruiting”. I have made money selling a product, i.e. customized web-portals, a virtual mall that offers cash back, to a mere 22 people that like to shop on line and get money back – above and beyond any discounts they could get otherwise. These 22 people have grown into 700+ people, most of which, about 95%, I have never met.
I am also starting to see some good money on the shopping residuals. As I mentioned, it can take 2-3 months for this to really kick in since many of the big stores have 90 days to send the cash back. Some give the cash back in a few days, some take their sweet time, but 90 days is the most they can wait.
I joined less than 4 months ago so the shopping residuals are just getting started. I’m telling it like it is and trying to be as honest as possible. I wouldn’t be involved if I felt there were any victims here. If adults sign up and don’t shop and get their $448 back, if they don’t like the service and don’t refer others, then sorry, I can’t be worried about them all.
Ultimately I can see that the shopping will result in some nice residual money. Since people do need to shop and the people who bought this product tend to shop on line a lot and liked the idea of saving time, money, gas and getting cash back too. They also tend to be Green people and use the Earth products as well. Atkins, Zoned, Avalon Organics, Cliff Bars, Joe Weider etc.
Small business owners like me spend more than $5,000 a month at stores like Staples and Office Max for reems of paper, folders, fax machine, ink cartridges, PC’s . My company is obviosuly already a registerd super preferred customer getting the lowest prices available at these very stores – but now I also get an additional 5% back in cash. That’s $3,000 a year for stuff my staff needs to buy anyway. The cash back on shopping is obviously TAX-FREE – not bad for the $448 purchase price no? I know lots of people like me. Any office such as Law firms and CPA firms will have big bills like this and can take advantage of this service.
There are also lots of home improvement guys and small builders that spend a lot at Home Depot, now they order on line at night through their customized Shop to Earn web-portal, get 4-5% back, and go pick it up in the morning at Will Call. No need to walk up and down the aisles and wait in line at the cash register. Time is money.
These people can spend 100’s of thousands a year at Home Depot. (if they are smart they can use “cash back” Visa or Mastercards too and really do well ) Where’s the harm in all of this? These web-sites can pay for themselves many times over.
If STE website owners (again they are web-site OWNERS, because they purchased their web-site) mention their web-portal and cash back savings to 4 or 5 friends, and they choose to buy a web portal too, then they get a $100 commission for each web-portal they buy. And then their website is paid for in full. BTW, no need to spend $100 at Shop to Earth EVER to get this $500 in referral fees. That’s only if you start “scoring” on the points system. That’s only if you become a business builder distributor. When my shopping residuals start rolling in, and I’m making $10,000- 20,000 a month, I will galdly buy some healthy stuff on their Earth store regardless of the price and regardless of the shipping costs.
There are also lots of middle-class families here in New Jersey that spend over $50,000 a year on line just for clothes, jewelry, diapers, kids sports equipment, endless gifts for birthday parties and weddings, graduations etc. You can even get discounted gift cards! Why not get 5%,10% or even 15% back from The Gap, Brookstone, Land’s End, Macy’s etc?
ALSO, Many people are donating Shop to Earn web-sites to their local charities, YMCAs, churches, town football teams etc and asking that the supporters shop on the charity web-site to help raise money for the cause.
Lastly, there is a major “save the planet’ theme with all of this. And every day I find myself recycling more than ever, taking my canvas bags to the supermarket to save paperbags. And I am buying more eco-friendly products from Shop to Earth every day. Why? because I log on like twice a day and this green movement is rubbing off on me. So I guess that’s a good thing too. The Shop to Earth on-line store will be a huge succes in a year or so when there are 1 million web-portal owners logging on and seeing that “Shop To Earth” logo staring them in the face. Talk about an ingenious way to drive traffic to your on-line Health Food store that carries name brand products (no proprietary products to convince people to use).
I know that there must be some people that maybe can’t afford the $448 and get involved only because they want to get rich quick. I can’t be responsible for these types. I haven’t come across any myself. They probably have spent that amount for one drunken night on the town every so often anyway. At least with Shop to Earn they do actually have a chance to earn some cash back and if they sell a few web-portals they can get their money back and break even. This ain’t so bad people. It really isn’t. Sorry to disappoint the naysayers who think we are evil.
Joe – You have serious issues. You’re not selling a website to anyone. You’re recruiting for an MLM. And the people who sign up aren’t “website owners” because they don’t own anything. They’re paying a fee to be part of the MLM.
Your “cash back from shopping” is absolutely NOT tax free because of what you’re involved in. Please understand your own program before spreading this misinformation. You should also know that you could get cash back from shopping online without being part of a MLM.
You can say whatever you want about how fabulous STE is. The fact remains that like other MLMs, 99% will likely lose their money. OF COURSE you’re going to promote the idea that the shopping is the real deal, but that’s not true. If it was, you’d simply be trying to find people to shop at your site. Instead, you’re busy trying to recruit people to sign up and pay to play. No amount of blathering by you about shopping will change this fact.
Joe..
Do you really think your investing to open your own business? do you have a federal tax ID? do you pay quarterly taxes? do you have a business permit or required certificates to be a business? do you keep comeplete records of all transactions, income, and spending? do you have the required business insurance?
ScamToEarn doesn’t give you a website either, it’s their site, they jsut open a new sub-folder with a page that is named what you want.. it’s their’s not yours, they own it, they run it, it’s their affiliate program with all the ’stores’ you can shop at, which anyone can sign up for, it costs nothing, and you control the pricing of the products over the base price, and keep the markup you place.
ScamToEarn marks everything up considerably to coevr the upline, even with the cashback, you’re paying more for everything that if you just went directly to the store.
It’s amazing how many clueless idiots there are who fall for these scams and enver really investigate what they are getting into. Good job Joe, you probably think PRes’ Bush did a good job for 8 years as well.
WOW!!!!!!!!!! Joe “0″ No wonder you fell for this hook, line, and sinker. You really have no clue about this scam. JOE, YOU RECRUIT PEOPLE AND THAT’S HOW YOU MAKE MOST OF THE MONEY!!!!!!!
Some people are definitely a sandwich short of a picnic. That goes for you too joe “0″ fan.
You too proved our point. If 86% of your income is from recruiting and only 14% is from shopping (I’m sure it’s less than that) then it’s an illegal pyramid scheme.
The way I understand it, is that you need to spend at least a $100 a month in STearth? I don’t believe drugstore.com is part of STearth but part of STE? The prices in STearth are the prices that are overinflated and I’d be more than happy to pull some comparisons. I’m not afraid to provide proof like most of the believers.
WAKE UP!!!!!!!!
Tracy:
You say I have ’serious issues’ . . . now that’s not very nice! epecially when you are absolutely wrong and incorrect in the very same blog????
Tracy wrote:
Your “cash back from shopping” is absolutely NOT tax free because of what you’re involved in. Please understand your own program before spreading this misinformation.
Cash back from my shopping actually is 100% tax free, it’s not income, its money that I already paid taxes on. This I am sure of. This is common knowledge. Just like you don’t pay taxes on your $50 Verizon cell phone rebate when it comes in the mail, or your Ford or GM rebate, or your Credit Card cash back. C’mon now, you know better than that!
I’ve done nothing but tell the truth and report the facts as I have experienced them to date. You’re allowed your version from outside looking in, but I am involved, I own a web-site, I am making money, I have people thanking me for showing them this model, and therefore only people like me really know how this works. If you joined 4 months ago, then you could become a better source of info. As of today, it all sounds like sour grapes.
The beauty and attraction of an on-line MLM is that you do NOT need all the overhead. It is indeed a new progressive, busines model for easy entry. I have started and sold a few businesses in my time. I created a business in 1997 that had over $500 millionin sales, I sold it to a VC group in 2003 (and yes I did pay some serious taxes that year).
I have spent millions on insurance, payroll, rent and other overhead over the years. The last thing I want to do is open and run yet another convetional business. This is truly a breath of fresh air.
Maybe STE is only for people that shop more than $10,000 a year on line, so at 4-5% they get their $448 back? If they spend $50,000 a year they make out very well. Then the next year they can re-new for much less and actually even more money.
Personally, I have never “recruitted” (your words not mine) anyone that couldn’t easily afford the $448. I have probably told as many people NOT to do this as I have showed it to. I have many contacts that want in on the next big thing I get in on, but if they don’t shop on line or don’t ever follow through, I tell them not to do it. I sleep like a baby at night . . . Or should I say, like an MLM millionaire on a Monday morning?
Joe originally said : “The cash back on shopping is obviously TAX-FREE – not bad for the $448 purchase price no?”
Now Joe says: “Cash back from my shopping actually is 100% tax free, it’s not income, its money that I already paid taxes on.”
You did not specify that the cash back on YOUR OWN shopping was tax free. See… It’s little “oopsies” like this that are used to mislead potential recruits. I’m not sure how STE tracks if the shopping on your site is done by you or someone else, but yes, it would be tax free personally.
Unless, of course, the business purchased the items and deducted the cost of the items on its tax return. Then the “cash back” actually belongs to the business and SHOULD be reported on the tax return. You can’t have the business pay for the items but then personally keep the cash back and have it be tax free.
$10,000 a year to get their $448 back but how about the $100 a month fee and the annual $119 fee. Don’t for get the processing fees for the direct deposit.
If you’re going to spend that type of money online and you’re not worried about the RECRUITING, WHY NOT USE WEBSITES THAT OFFER THE SAME THING FOR FREE???????? There are FREE websites that do the same thing Joe “0″. FREE! FREE! FREE! There are plenty of them out there.
I know, it’s not about the recruiting “0″. LOL!!!!
Tracy,
You can do that, with the taxes, if you’re STE!!! Just ask Joe. If STE says it’s ok then by golly it’s gospel. : )
That’s really sad, that people believe in this crap.
There really is nothing further to debate about this issue, so comments on this thread are closed.