Banking 101 - If you’re “using the bank’s money” it means you’ve borrowed it from the bank and you’re going to pay interest to “use” it. You don’t get to use it for free.
The United First Financial Money Merge Account supposedly uses “the bank’s money” to help you pay off your mortgage faster. After paying the $3,500 admission fee, you use Home Equity Loan (HELOC) funds to pay down your mortgage, and then you use your paycheck to pay down the HELOC. (Confused yet?)
The idea (sort of) is that instead of putting your paycheck into a checking account and letting the money sit there until you need it to pay bills, you can use the Money Merge system to “put your money to work for you”. Essentially, until you actually need that cash, it’s being used to reduce what you owe on your house. So you get a week or two of reducing your interest on your mortgage through this money shuffle.
That adds up to a whopping couple hundred dollars a year saved with the money shuffle that UFF promotes with the Money Merge account. (Your real savings is in prepaying your mortgage each month… That pays down your balance faster and saves you interest. But you can do that for free without the Money Merge account.)
But here’s where the lies get interesting. From some UFF training documents:
Do I really need a HELOC? Why can’t I use my savings account?
In order for the MMA program to function properly, you will need a HELOC because you are using more than just your money to satisfy your debt. The program also utilizes the bank’s money to pay down the debt.
That statement is completely misleading to the consumer. When the user of the MMA does the money shuffle, part of it involves using HELOC funds to pay down the first mortgage. Guess what? A HELOC almost always has a higher rate of interest than your first mortgage.
You’re not “using the bank’s money” to pay down the mortgage. You are borrowing funds from your HELOC (higher interest rate) to pay down your first mortgage (lower interest rate). At some point your paycheck gets deposited to the HELOC and the money shuffle is almost complete.
A UFF agent will tell you not to worry about this HELOC borrowing, because the time for which you’re borrowing the money is short, so the interest you’ll actually pay is low. That may be true, but who in their right mind would use more expensive borrowed funds to pay off less expensive borrowed funds? Even for one day?
It makes no sense, and the key to getting consumers past this kind of logic is by pretending that “you’re using the bank’s money.” Sure you are. And the bank is lending it to you at a higher interest rate than your first mortgage. That’s not helping the consumer. That’s hurting them.
Which is precisely why your agent won’t explain these details to you. Who is going to pay $3,500 to use a program that has you use higher interest debt to pay off lower interest debt? Who is going to pay $3,500 to do a silly money shuffle with your paycheck and HELOC that will (at most) offer you a couple hundred dollars a year in savings?
Keep your $3,500 and prepay your mortgage for free. Don’t get conned into this silly scam that uses a confusing money shuffle and outright lies to convince you it works.
28 Aug 08 at 7:33 am
Or better yet, just pay the $3,500 directly toward your existing mortgage. It will put you in a lot better position than flushing it down the UFF Toilet. How do these Companies get away with this stuff?
17 Sep 08 at 12:40 am
http://www.zogleinc.com/jpdnsi
On that page I host two PDF’s and an ASPX file. The are amortization schedules for a standard, well managed, and uFirst MMA analysis.
I figured a few visuals might help you get your point across.
Note: there is a difference in amortization schedules between the “Current Amortization” listed in the MMA analysis and the standard amortization bankrate.com provides. I don’t know why. Possibly I entered some information incorrectly.
The fastest easiest way to pay off debt REMAINS prepayments (extra income applied directly to the principle). Period.
10 Oct 08 at 6:59 pm
It actually simple! The MMA account uses simple interest (HELOC) to cancel out compound interest (mortgage). Simple interest at a higher rate will beat compounded interest at a lower rated any day of the week. Thats simple math. I use this product and can claim that it does work, and works wonderfully!!! I have been using the program since Aug 2008 and have canceled over 36 months of payments (a little over $24,000 in interest) off my mortgage. Cost: $3500 for software and $85 in simple interest paid on The HELOC. Best investment I have ever made, will be completely debt free in 6.25 yrs saving over 130,000 in interest, without changing my lifestyle. The naysayers can claim whatever they want. Thats ok!!! Keep being slaves to the banks. I’ll be debt free!!. Who cares what it cost. It cost what it cost. Its up to the individual to decide if they want to pay it. The cost doesn’t make it a scam. Is a personal trainer a scam? This is also something u could do own your own!
10 Oct 08 at 11:07 pm
Tom - Look at it this way: 8% interest on $1,000 for one month is more than 6% interest on $1,000 for one month. During that month, it doesn’t matter if you call it simple or compound. It’s one month of interest, period.
In the case of the MMA, the HELOC is “simple interest” because you pay it each month as it accumulates, so it doesn’t compound. But that doesn’t put you ahead. You’re paying more in interest that month by incurring 8% interest for the month than 6% interest for the month.
All you’re doing the money shuffle between the mortgage and the HELOC is replacing debt with debt. It’s nonsense.
27 Oct 08 at 8:19 pm
IF it so bad, howcome i don’t see any UFF client coming out stating that it’s bad, its’ a scamm, they didn’t save anything…blah blah blah….
and to Tracy, i wanna see the result of the PPL that do it your way versus the ppl that do it the UFF way, and see which is better….
so far, i’ve only seen UFF client, coming forth saying it’s good….
and i haven’t heard anything from the ppl that u’ve help coming forward…
saying ur way is better???
28 Oct 08 at 6:50 am
I’ve used my plan and it is FABULOUS! As for why others aren’t commenting about the Do-It-Yourself plan? Well I suspect that they’re not searching the internet for information about UFF, so this site isn’t even on their radar screen. It doesn’t mean that people aren’t doing it successfully.
28 Oct 08 at 10:07 am
To Tracy, well if it is Fabulous then show us ur step by step Do it urself plan VS the UFF plan???….so that we can see the difference…
and most ppl don’t have the kind of mindset that u have to go and research about some Product….becuz everyone don’t think alike….and don’t share the same knowledge….sooo do u keep track of how many ppl u have help to become financially free, free of charge….and if u do not have the time to do that…then just let UFF handle it…at least the client is happy with the product…
28 Oct 08 at 10:12 am
UFF - Spend $3,500. Send all extra cash to mortgage.
DIY - Spend $0. Send all extra cash to mortgage. Immediate savings = $3,500.
28 Oct 08 at 10:45 am
UFF isn’t making people financially free. It is burdening them with an extra $3,500 cost (plus interest, because most are financing that) that they don’t need to incur. UFF is also eating up a lot of people’s time with a money shuffle that is unnecessary and ineffective.
28 Oct 08 at 12:53 pm
To Tracy, i want to see a real sample of a Client that do it ur way, vs the Client that do it UFF way….
28 Oct 08 at 1:44 pm
I gave you the real sample. It’s just that easy. Real client my way pays all extra cash to mortgage. UFF client wastes $3,500 first, and then pays all extra cash to mortgage. There’s nothing more to it. I’m as real as it gets.
28 Oct 08 at 2:06 pm
Amorpheus, maybe if you didn’t type like a 14 year old girl with all your net abreviations, readers might take your argument a little more seriously.
“omg, wtf, y r u saying that? lol”
28 Oct 08 at 2:34 pm
ok then show me an Amortization Schedule vs the UFF Amortization Schedule, i wanna see the numbers…and see who pays off faster…
28 Oct 08 at 6:24 pm
What numbers would you like me to put into the amortization schedule?
Suppose you have a $200,000 mortgage today. The amount of money you have available to pay that mortgage each month is the same whether you’re on do-it-yourself or on UFF, right? (No, the UFF MMA doesn’t create money, nor does it let you pay down your mortgage using the bank’s money. If you’ve been told that, you’ve been lied to.)
So which will take you longer to pay off: $200,000 on DIY, or $203,500 with UFF? The answer is clear. It takes longer and costs more to pay off your mortgage by purchasing UFF.
No amortization schedule is really needed for this.
28 Oct 08 at 7:47 pm
This is not just about your mortgage. UFF takes all your debt. Home, cars, consumer loans, credit cards, etc and finds the fastest way to zero. Tracey IF you can do all that, then congrats. I’ll stay with what I know works and its UFF. It’s funny no users of UFF are coming forward to say the system doesn’t work. Just people who have never used the system or say they have something better. I did my due diligence before I purchased my program. I could not find one unhappy coustomer. You still don’t really understand how the program works. You really need to find someone to show you the system. If the only reason you say its a scam is how much it cost, then you need to re-examine what a scam is. UFF does exactly what it says it does with no hidden cost. They tell you it cost $3500, and the customer makes the decision to purchase or not. Thats not a scam!!!!!
28 Oct 08 at 7:55 pm
Tracey,
After looking at what you wrote about simple and compound interest you have no idea of what your talking about.
28 Oct 08 at 9:10 pm
Right, Thomas. You’ve taken the bogus “canceling compound interest with simple interest” explanation as gospel, even though I’d bet you have no idea what that means.
I’ll break it down for you: Suppose you owe $10,000 on a HELOC at 6%. If you pay the interest for this month, you’ve paid $50 simple interest. If you don’t pay that interest, it will compound, and the next month you will owe interest on $10,050. It’s only simple interest so long as you pay the interest owed each month. If it accumulates, it compounds.
Now what about your home mortgage? It works exactly the same way. 6% interest on $10,000 on a regular mortgage also costs you $50 the first month. If you pay that interest charge, it’s simple interest. If you don’t pay it, it will compound, and the next month you’ll owe interest on $10,050.
This simple interest vs compound interest is simply another fancy-sounding smokescreen used to conceal the fact that the UFF MMA doesn’t really get you ahead.
As for your example with multiple debts, it’s easy, and can be done without UFF. Pay all minimum payments. Use extra cash each month to pay extra on the account with the highest interest rate. There is no magic to this. It is extremely simple math.
UFF wants you to believe that a fancy money shuffle saves you money on your debts. It doesn’t. You’re saving money simply based on the fact that you’re paying extra cash toward your debts above and beyond your minimum monthly payments. No money shuffle needed, and no $3,500 expense for a complicated (but virtually worthless) system.
28 Oct 08 at 9:18 pm
“UFF takes all your debt. Home, cars, consumer loans, credit cards, etc and finds the fastest way to zero. Tracey IF you can do all that, then congrats.”
Thomas - is it not obvious to you that Tracy’s rule “pay the highest interest rate debt first” (after paying all minimums, of course) is the fastest way to zero? Of course, if one is drowning in debt as you imply, what are the chances they have $1000 extra cash each month to match the classic MMA example?
I know why no users are unhappy - they are mostly part of the MLM sales plan of UFF, and they don’t want to shoot themselves in the foot.
Joe
28 Oct 08 at 11:15 pm
To Abe, sorrie if u didn’t like the typing, i’m just use to typing it this way….i can sooo type it your way too, if you want…
29 Oct 08 at 11:15 am
Its like I said before. It works!!! It does exactly what they said it will do. They told me it cost $3500. ITS NOT A SCAM!!! I’ll be debt free in just under 6yrs when it would have taken me 30yrs and saving me $130000. I get my extra cash from my HELOC (which is my money anyway). I want to know how many of you have actually had someone sit down and show you how the program works? I bet none. I have no personal stake in you liking UFF or not. I just hate seeing people give someone or something a bad rap because they don’t really understand it or have a conflict of interest. If you don’t agree with how much something cost, that doesn’t mean its a scam. It just means you wont buy it. UFF is up front about how it works, what it will do, and how much it cost. Get over it!!!!!
29 Oct 08 at 11:17 am
If it didn’t work I would be the first person back here telling everyone it doesn’t work!!!! I don’t like anyone being taken advantage of.
29 Oct 08 at 11:48 am
Thomas - I have seen the program. I know exactly how it works. I have no conflict of interest. I simply don’t want consumers wasting $3,500 on a product that does NOTHING for them. Buying this program is no different than flushing $3,500 down the toilet. It gets you a tool that does next to nothing at too high a price. Now if you still decide you want to waste your money, good for you. But that’s not going to stop me from educating other consumers who actually want to understand the VERY SIMPLE MATH behind this whole thing.
29 Oct 08 at 12:30 pm
I don’t believe you have seen the program. How can you tell me it does nothing for the customer, when I am a customer and it is saving me 24yrs off my mortgage and $130000. If I or any other customer choses to spend $3500 dollars for a calculator that helps us stay focused on what we need to do to be debt free, then thats what we chose. If you have a better system, put it on the market for cheaper or free. But quit bashing a company that has chosen to sell a product for a particular price. It’s like comparing a Toyota to a Bently. Product cost what it cost. The customer has the choice to purchase or not. If UFF was misrepresenting itself Id be here beside you telling people to not purchase the product, but you cant say that it doesn’t work. You can only say you dont like how much it cost. I can tell you for sure that it does. I use it!!!!!!
29 Oct 08 at 1:12 pm
You’re calling me a liar? I’ve seen the program, and that’s that.
You could save MORE than $130,000 without the UFF software. That is the bottom line here. It is a $3,500 expense that is completely unnecessary, and can be replaced with an EXTREMELY SIMPLE do-it-yourself process that will save you time and money.
29 Oct 08 at 1:30 pm
What is a lie is that you continue to say the product does nothing for the customer! That is a lie! I believe you should acknowledge that UFF has a useful product that does work. If you continue to call it a scam then thats a lie also! The only thing you can say is you don’t agree with the price, and that your personal opinion. If you have a better product that is so easy put it out there and quit defaming a company that is helping people because you don’t like what their product cost. If you think it should be free create a free product for people and put UFF out of business. Quit talking and start putting action to your claims.
29 Oct 08 at 1:33 pm
Ahmen to that Thomas…
29 Oct 08 at 7:27 pm
Thomas - Tracy doesn’t have a better product to sell, nor do I. I’d suggest you get another dollar out of your pocket and buy a clue. I produced a spreadsheet I pass out for free, and it compared well to the classic MMA example, $200K/6% loan, beating MMA by the number of moths it takes to pay off the extra $3500. In practice, however, the spreadsheet only tells you your target payoff date, in the same way MMA directs you to pay all your discretionary income to your loans.
You confuse cause and effect, my friend. You claim MMA does what it says. OK, I’ll concede that. Using no MMA does exactly the same but for $3500 less. Yes, I spent the hour on the stupid webinar, which was pure fluff, and they took no questions. Add it to the hours I’ll ask for back when I’m on my deathbed. At least ‘Waterworld’ had popcorn.
Joe
29 Oct 08 at 7:45 pm
Thomas - It’s clear that you don’t want to admit that you’ve wasted $3,500. You could get BETTER savings without the program, so it really DOESN’T do what it says. It says it will save you money. It actually causes you to lose $3,500 plus the interest on that if you finance it (which most do).
UFF reps are using lies to sell this product. And that’s the scam right there. They use phrases just like the title of this thread…. and that phrase is a lie.
29 Oct 08 at 8:30 pm
Once again you you have proven my point. I spent $3500 to save over $130000 in 6.25yrs. Good investment!!!! Quit bashing a company and bring something better to market and put them out of business otherwise find something better to do with your time. Better yet go find some people who arent satisfied with UFF. I dont think you will find any. Its just you and taxpayer who cant buy a clue!!! I’m done here!!! UFF IS A GOOD COMPANY AND THE MMA PROGRAM DOES WORK AS PROMISED!! THIS IS A CUSTOMER TALKING NOT AN AGENT!!!!GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GOODNIGHT ALL!!!
29 Oct 08 at 8:48 pm
No, waste of money. You could have saved more without UFF. Bad “investment”.
29 Oct 08 at 9:36 pm
Thomas - calm down, my friend. How do you think MMA saved you anything? They directed you to take all your discretionary funds and use it to prepay your mortgage, right? You only used *your* money to pay *your* mortgage. When you borrow from the HELOC you pay the bank you use their money likely at a higher rate than the mortgage. The savings using that shuffle are less than the cost of the program which is why you come out behind by using MMA at all. Those who simply send their month end checking balance to their mortgage (maybe with a HELOC available if they add wrong one month or have an unexpected bill) come out ahead. By $3500 plus some interest.
All the talk of 3 million calculations and precise timing is nonsense. The MMA cost over the 10 year period is nearly $400/year. Even if I left $2000 sitting at 0% all year, I’ve only lost $120. And saved myself the effort of all the account juggling. Problem is, people like Tracy and I will always be willing to offer numbers and ask for proof in return. MMA advocates will offer ranting and hyperbole but no facts.
You realize that just because the users are too ignorant (or embarassed) to come forward means nothing. If and when UFF is shut down for good we’ll know how many people fell for this useless scheme.
Joe
14 Nov 08 at 10:31 am
To Tracey, and JoeTaxPayer,
since you 2 are pro at detecting scams,
can you two check to see if this new site is a scam also
note: i’ve already google it, and it didn’t show up on the scam list
so thats why i came to ask you 2..
this is the site, ty and would appreciate your help…
http://www.z2rsystem.com/
14 Nov 08 at 3:32 pm
“Zero 2 Riches”?!?!?
You really have to ask?
14 Nov 08 at 4:04 pm
Craig - He was actually just trying to post his affiliate link, which I redacted.
14 Nov 08 at 4:08 pm
well, since u specialize in that field, i want u to take a look at it b4 i take anymore further step into it…for my own safety…
Since your the experct at dectecting fraud things,
thats why i came to you…
15 Nov 08 at 6:25 pm
Armorpheus - I have only been commenting on one scam, MMA. The link you posted leads to a site that offers little detail about what one needs to do to make the money promised, but is clear that you need to pull people in to the scheme, each and every week. Sounds like MLM, a pyramid scheme, and something I’d not bother with.
Joe
16 Nov 08 at 10:49 am
Amorpheus, my advice to you would be to get your GED, and once you no longer write like a seven year-old, you might be able to get a job or trade that pays well enough that you don’t need to consider get-rich-quick schemes as a way to get ahead.
16 Nov 08 at 4:04 pm
it’s easy typing everything correct, i’m just use to using these abbreviations thats all, so don’t judge me too quickly there,
you don’t know me that well…
16 Nov 08 at 8:38 pm
We know that you already signed up to this scam that you want Tracy to “look into”. We know that because you apparently included your affiliate link.
Because it is an obvious scam to anyone with two brain cells to rub together, either you are a dunce, or you are a scammer, looking to post your affiliate link in as many places as possible, trolling for a quick buck. The smart money is on the latter.
16 Nov 08 at 8:46 pm
Craig, who said i was asking you, i was asking Tracey here, since she’s the pro at this, now Tracey, can you please see if it’s good or bad…
16 Nov 08 at 9:35 pm
Amorpheus - I would not recommend that anyone get involved with the company for which you posted your affiliate link.
16 Nov 08 at 9:46 pm
Ty, but how would you go about to find more proof that it’s not good,
i can’t find any negative stuff about it so thats why i came to ask you,
since your the expert on these stuff, and the more proof there is, the better it is for people to not get caught in it, i mean, it doesn’t cost any money to join, but i want to find out the badside of it,
cuz i haven’t found any complaints yet….and don’t want others to fall for it’s scam.